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Discussion Starter #21
Wow, I never expected to update this thread as much as I am. I've updated it every day for the last three days. FGMM 168 just went up by $26 at ammoman.com.
 

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I have some prices from American Ballistics, The ammo is super quality, and is the issue ammo for DOE snipers, and some other Govt contracts as well. The ammo is available in 308 and 30-06. The 308 is 175 grain and the 30-06 is 190.

Pricing is 15 a box for the 308 and 16 a box for the 30-06. Shippig will be extra, but to keep it low I will see if I can arrange a drop ship
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Mlammers,

Let me know what case pricing is as well if you don't mind and I'll get it posted. Would this be direct from Am. Ballistics or through you?

Updated the list folks. I don't update every single line everytime I update, it's just too much of a pain in the ass. I update anything I KNOW has changed and the major places. If you notice something that is off, please post here or shoot me a PM so I can change it.

Pricing is still going up. Even S&B jumped $2/box at Natchezz since I last updated (less than a month).
 

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The price listed is the same, I gave everybody the case price even on one box orders. The pricing is through me, but I might be able to arrange drop shipping on case orders, if so that would for sure save on the shipping. For smaller(less than a case) I will ship it from my shop, and hope I get some orders that adup to a case, if not it means more for me shoot (that is never a bad thing).
 

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georgia arms

Has anyone tried georgia arms ammo, thier prices are very competitive but I do not how accurate they are.
 

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I've got a friend who's shot some of their stuff and says he's had good (not sure what "good" means) success with it. I can't remember exactly what it was he said he'd used, but i'm thinking it was the sierra match BTHP's for $50/100.
I plan to try em out once i have a rifle to try em out on.
the way I see it is that for $0.50 a round, it's worth a try.
 

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This may be a dumb question, or it may have been discussed already and i just missed it, but here it goes...

I am just getting into long range shooting, in fact i don't even have my rifle yet, but i want to try to find a good load and stick with it. I don't want to switch between different manufacturers and weights. I have read the match grade ammo comparison on this site and it looks like the black hills and FGMM are the best for quality/accuracy and the real M118LR looks pretty good too, but what about availability. In my research online and reading thru this thread it looks like the FGMM prices aren't very steady but they are really easy to find. How do the black hills and the real M118LR compare? Also, how do you know if it is real M118LR or not? Besides the ammout of drop the bullet sees, is there a real advantage to using the 175 grain instead of teh 168?
 

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The availability of blackhills is very good. midwayusa.com tends to always have some, but you can probably find it cheaper else where. FGMM is also always available.

I am just rounding up the last few boxes for an even larger and better ran comparison on the ammo. Should be about 8 manufacturers represented.

MEL
 

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That's great, i got a lot of useful information from your last comaprison. I don't even have the rifle yet, i am planning on buying it when i get my bonus around the 1st of the year, but i am getting excited and trying to soak in as much information as i can to be ready. I think i have decided on the rifle i am going to buy, now i just have to pick the ammo to use...
 

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I have a question about the weights of bullets. I am just getting into long range shooting and trying to get set on a load to use. Obviously 175 grain slugs will carry a little better over longer ranges than 168 will, but how big a difference is it? It looks like the 168's are more common and a few dollars cheaper per box (speaking for the federal gmm), so for someone just shooting for recreation like me they might be a better choice. If the 175's are significantly better though, it would be worth it to get them. Any suggestions?

-Andy
 

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hey mel, any more word on when we can hope to see the next update to the match grade comparison? I am cuious to hear what improvements the hunting shack ammo has made.

-andy
 

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I am not sure about other manufacturers, but i was just looking for some black hills and was having a hard time getting it. It seemed like everyone i contacted was out of stock. I ended up ordering some from northwest loading and the guy had to call me and ask if he could substitute some moly coated for the regulars i had ordered b/c he didn't have enough of the regular 175's to fill my order. Might have to just start loading my own instead i guess.

-Andy
 

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aw25833 said:
I have a question about the weights of bullets. I am just getting into long range shooting and trying to get set on a load to use. Obviously 175 grain slugs will carry a little better over longer ranges than 168 will, but how big a difference is it? It looks like the 168's are more common and a few dollars cheaper per box (speaking for the federal gmm), so for someone just shooting for recreation like me they might be a better choice. If the 175's are significantly better though, it would be worth it to get them. Any suggestions?

-Andy
Executive summary: Inside 600 yards, the 168 gives up (almost) nothing compared to the 175 loads. The trajectories are close enough it matters little.

Long winded responce::

Once you get beyond 600 yards, then you have to become extremely specific--everything becomes critical. For factory loaded stuff, you can basically choose 175 FGMM or 175 Black Hills. If you consider reloading, then the Berger and Lapua bullets carry a better Ballistic Coefficient, and this allows you to roll better ammo than the FGMM stuff you can buy (if you can! and if you can rfind a load that shoots well in your gun).

Comparing a 155 gr to a 175 gr bullet with an "equally developed" load, the 155 bullet starts off 150 fps faster than the 175. The Lapua 155 and Berger 155 bullets have slightly better Ballistic coefficients than the (classic) Sierra 168 or 175 MK bullets. So after launching the 155 faster, these bullets hold their velocity more like the 175 Sierra's (than the 155 Sierra's). This gives the lighter better BC bullets an advantage up through 1000 yards (transonic transition). The Lapua and Berger 155's leave the Sierra 155s in the dust.

All of these rounds go subsonic between 1000 yards and 1120 yards; so in some respect, the Lapua and Berger high BC bullets were designed to push the transonic transition just beyond 1000 yards from 900-to-950 yards (and then call it a day--at least for the 308).

Experiments on other forums suggests that the Lapua BC's are a 'little' optimistic. The BC data (and ballistics calculations based thereupon) indicates that the L155 is 1/2 way between the "175 FGMM 308 at 2600 fps" and the "190 gr SMK 300 WinMag at 3000 fps" in drop at 1000 yards. Experienced reloaders have concluded that the L155 is not quite as good as the BC numbers imply (although still better than the S175). The L155 is ballistically close to both the B155 and B175 VLD bullets (based on actual use in actual guns by experienced shooters.)

Finally note, you simply cannot go out and buy a long range bullet put it in your gun, zero the scope, and then expect to dial in your scope to a dope table and hit anything at great distances. You have to shoot that loading at various ranges to see how that loading shoots in your gun. You build your own dope table! (or at least deltas to the dope table you use.) Also note, if you buy another batch of ammo that comes from a different manufacturing lot, you get to go throught the whole dial-in-dope procedure again. FGMM 175 from Nov 3, 2006 does not shoot exactly like FGMM 175 from Nov 14, 2006! (illustrative example only) And by the time you get to 1000 yards, it can be off as much as 20 inches. And none of this would show up at 100 yards practice sessions (without a chronograph, maybe even with).

To summarize, if all you want to do is to hit what you are aminimg at at long distances, then pick up an ammo that has this distance capability (e.g. still supersonic), buy a huge lot of it, and use it for all you practice and duty sessions. Use every practice session to fill in missing data on your dope tables. When this lot is done, buy another large lot of ammo, and restart the dope table build up all over again.

The only realistic alternative is to do similarly if you choose to reload. Buy a batch of bullets (say 5,000) all of the same weight from the same lot, primers from the same lot (5000 again), powder from one lot (32-33 pounds will cover 5000 rounds), finally, even the cases should be from the same lot (Lake city or Lapua) and shot the same number of times! (Whew!) Then you have to build each cartrige with upmost care and measure each reloading session at the practice range to verify that your technique is "up to snuff".

In any realistic sense, if ammo A shoots tighter groups at all distances than ammo B, then for long distance work it is always better to hit the target than to miss with an excellent bullet/trajectory/going faster,....
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Sorry it's been so long folks. I did a partial update this morning just for Midway. I'll try to get through the rest asap. Thanks to Lone Soldier for kicking me in the arse on this.
 
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