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That info was just what I was looking for Mr Newberry, I just picked up some 4064(finally found some) and loaded it up in a ladder. Didn't have extremely great results in the lower charge range but I loaded up some more in the lapua brass I just got in, I'm loaded from mid range up to max and I just finally got my shoulder bump and neck tension where I want them so I'm excited to see if the extra tweaking makes any difference. Oh well I have to wait a few more days to go home. Also I'm a little south of Pittsburgh and it looks like your school is only a few hours from home so I'm going to try to get a group together to come down sometime this summer as there are 5 or 6 of us just starting to get into the long range thing. How many entry level classes will you have this summer?
 

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How do you folks feel about IMR-3031 for .308? I have an abundance of 3031, but no more 4895... IMR has load data for the 308 with 3031, but I have not loaded any of it yet..
 

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An accuracy load used by many with IMR 3031 is 39 grains (39.0 grains) and the 168 SMK in Winchester brass. It runs about 2500 to 2550 from most rifles, and shoots bugholes from good ones. Give the load a try and let us know how it does for you.

Ozzy, we can arrange a class just for you guys, email me thru the site and we'll work it out.

Lapua brass versus Hornady...

Hornady claims to be making their own brass. And that may in fact be the case. Years back, the "Frontier" Hornady brass seemed to be re-stamped Winchester, but now their cases do not look or act like Winchester brass.

Hornady and Nosler brass are very much alike, showing near exact capacities in .308 Win. I can't speak for the other chamberings, but for 308 the Hornady and Nosler brass seem very similar.

As for Hornady versus Lapua (again in .308 win), the Hornady is a little tighter inside, which would indicate your accuracy node would use a bit less powder. There's a grain's worth of weight difference in ball powder (748) capacity between Hornady and Lapua, with Hornady holding less. I would expect a load worked up in Lapua brass would need about .7 to 1% less powder to shoot the same in Hornady brass.

Norma brass (.308 win) holds more powder than Nosler, Hornady, or Lapua... it's somewhere between Winchester and these others as far as capacity.

Dan
 

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Rgr that Dan.

I'm going the other way, hornady to Lapua. Since case capacity is larger, looks like I am going to start with my last good load (44.3 of varget in a hornady case) and work back up.

thanks for the input
 

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10-4... I would just fire a couple of pressure check rounds at 42.5 and then 43.5 to be sure, but yes, most likely you'll find your accuracy node with Lapua at around 44.6 grains (for 175's that's where it normally shows up)... are you shooting 175's?
 

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That's correct. 175 SMK

I want to try the 178 A-max but don't want to buy a whole 100 just to try.
 

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I ended up bumping it to 39.5 on the IMR-3031 load. Was shooting an average group of .551" and my best of the day (5 3-shot groups) was .481". Hope it keeps up it's half minute accuracy this weekend at 800. I'd love some 4" groups. :) Don't want to load too much of it though... going to have to rework the load when the new schneider barrel shows up next week.

SMK 168 over 39.5 gr of IMR-3031. Glad to have a powder that works with my AR! Now to see if I can load something that produces better accuracy than 4895 for my m14 I will be a one powder man!
 

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I'm glad you made it work. That'll probably shoot pretty well in your m14 also. Runs some numbers through JBM and see what they look like at 800 yards...

Good luck. :)

Dan
 

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But is federal match ammo better then homemade, ladder tested handloaded ammo?

Just curious of why the federal match grade ammo is getting so much attention? :)
 

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Federal GMM is what inspired me to design the OCW load development system. That ammo, and other factory recipes like it, prove to a large degree that while all rifles are not as different as most handloaders would have you believe. A rifle is not some mystery unto itself necessarily--although there will be subtle differences in barrels that will cause them to prefer their own favorite distance to lands with the bullet.

But put Federal GMM or one of Hornady's match ammo loads into you .308 and if it doesn't shoot great, there's something wrong with the rifle and/or shooter. That's a simple fact.

All that said, you can outperform Federal GMM with a good handload, it's not that hard to do. Just use good brass, the right charge of powder, and thesame bullet that Federal is using (either the 168 or 175 SMK).

Dan
 

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Federal GMM is what inspired me to design the OCW load development system. That ammo, and other factory recipes like it, prove to a large degree that while all rifles are not as different as most handloaders would have you believe. A rifle is not some mystery unto itself necessarily--although there will be subtle differences in barrels that will cause them to prefer their own favorite distance to lands with the bullet.

But put Federal GMM or one of Hornady's match ammo loads into you .308 and if it doesn't shoot great, there's something wrong with the rifle and/or shooter. That's a simple fact.

All that said, you can outperform Federal GMM with a good handload, it's not that hard to do. Just use good brass, the right charge of powder, and thesame bullet that Federal is using (either the 168 or 175 SMK).

Dan

Truth
 

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OK Dan I new here so I gotta ask. Whats the OCW load development system? You can pm me if needed but I am just getting into reloading so a proven system would be helpful.
 

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All this chasing itty bitty groups a100 yards off the bench is good fun, teaches good breathing and trigger control, even produces bragging groups for your wallet. But what I have learnt over the last 25 years of loading and 30 years of shooting is that consistent sub moa. from any position, hot or cold barrel, suppressor on or off, day or night, full moon, high tide or whatever is more useful than burning up barrels and powder searching for a one hole group. I'm sure law enforcement and military snipers rarely use a bench but get out there and shoot the thing! Invariably with issue weapons, optics and ammunition.

Rounds down range from different positions at different ranges, under different conditions will be stand you in better stead when trying to kill a buck at 350 yards resting off a tree, a steel plate at 875 yards in a 14 mile an hour cross wind or zombie on the back porch at 4 in the morning!

I appreciate that this is a precision shooting site but let's not lose sight of the fact that the bench at 100 yards is a tool and not the be all and end all.

I apologize for having a rant but I can call it a night now.
 

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I hate shooting at 100 yards. Hate it.

If my rifle has a super sonic range of 1000 yards, using only 1/10th of that just kills me. I feel okay shooting at 200 yards, better at three, but I really enjoy shooting at steel 500-1000 yards.

I shoot at 100 yards sometimes but when I do it is with a rim fire.
 
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