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X500Ben,
I used to train the boys by grabbing a bag of windfall apples from the neighbor and head up to the mountain and find an old logging road where we could get 50-500 yards. We would walk down the road putting apples on the end of sticks. When we got back to the truck, we would start with the closest and all shoot at the same apple, no idea of distance, and work our way out. As the boys became men, you needed to make sure you got off the first shot! The oldest son is scary good! The only rest you got was what you could find on the road, or offhand.
 

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I hate shooting at 100 yards. Hate it.

If my rifle has a super sonic range of 1000 yards, using only 1/10th of that just kills me. I feel okay shooting at 200 yards, better at three, but I really enjoy shooting at steel 500-1000 yards.

I shoot at 100 yards sometimes but when I do it is with a rim fire.
I just had too.

o85yn.jpg
 

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Nice rundown Dan, Thanks.

We load match grade ammo for .308's for folks who fly in to our school from other parts of the country, and don't want to transport ammo by air. I also keep an ample supply on hand for cases when a shooter shows up for the course with a supply of ammo that simply isn't working. For a little over a buck a shot, we can sell him a supply of match grade ammo that will work in his .308.

OAL needs to be 2.800". That'll fit the Remington 700 magazine, and it'll be seated short enough that it won't be into the lands in some shallow cut Savage chambers. In short, that OAL will work in pretty much any .308 that is not made wrong. :)

Bullets. We do use a lot of 168's simply because they are the most plentiful. I've found that 44.5 grains of W748 will send them from most rifles at near 2700 fps, and they arrive super-sonic at 1040 yards (the farthest target in our standard course).

Other match recipes that work very well are 43.6 grains of IMR 4895. 44.5 grains of IMR 4064 or Varget or RL15 will also send 168's out at a good but safe speed.

For 175 grain match loads in Winchester brass it is very hard to beat 42.4 grains of IMR 4895. That's a safe load in pretty much any .308 you'll come across, and is more than 2 grains under Hodgdon's max--so you can simply load it up and go with it. Also with 175's, 43.4 grains of IMR 4064 or Varget is an under-max, moderate pressure load that is a great long range performer.

There are lower nodes for these combinations of bullet and powder, but velocity won't normally satisfy, and load density will suffer and therefore accuracy as well. If 43.4 grains of 4064 seems too hot for your liking, the next node down is around 42 grains. Sierra claims 42.2 grains of 4064 is an accuracy node, but I've seen that not work all that well in many .308's. It's decent, but not as good as it could be.

Hodgdon shows around 45 grains as max with 4064 and 175's, and I've not seen a .308 show any pressure problems with 43.4 grains.

The Lake City M118LR load used to be 42 grains of IMR 4895 in Lake City brass with the 175 SMK. And in Winchester brass, you need and extra .4 grains to make it work, so load 42.4 grains as mentioned above.

43 grains of W748 in Lake City brass works very well with 175's.

If you are shooting 155's, 45.6 grains of IMR 4895 in Winchester brass is a good performer. An OAL of 2.800" works well with the Sierra or Nosler 155's.

More recent Federal brass (last few years) and Lake City brass is very similar in capacity. Remington and Lapua are very close to the Lake City and FC as well. Normally, if you have a match load in Winchester brass, you'll end up finding the accuracy node with these other brass makes about 1 percent less powder. (for example, the 42.4 grain IMR 4895 175 SMK load in Winchester brass will need only 42.0 grains of IMR 4895 in Lake City, Federal, Remington, or Lapua brass.

The IMR 4895 and 4064 powders work pretty well in lower density loads, so you can back these down and still do fairly well. Varget, on the other hand, seems to prefer higher load density to shoot well. While 748 can burn a bit dirty, and its velocity drops when it gets cold outside (lower than freezing or so), it's still a very good powder, easy to load because it meters so well, and it makes some very accurate ammo if you load the right charge.

Temperature sensitivity reputations often are a bit undeserved with many powders because optimal charge weight charges were not being used. Loading the proper powder amount in a given recipe can go a long way toward mitigating temp sensitivity issues.

With 178 Hornady bullets, try 43.4 grains of RL15 in Winchester brass, or 43 grains even, with Lapua, Lake City, or Federal brass.
41.3 grains of Ramshot TAC makes a decent match load behind 178 Hornady bullets in Winchester brass. It runs between 2500 and 2550 from most 22 to 26 inch barrels, and makes 1000 yards easily. Use magnum primers with Ramshot TAC in such low densities.

Dan
 

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Sounds like I've hit a nerve with my comments. I appreciate that lots of ranges only go to 100 yards so shoot a 22 or shoot at bottle tops, lengths of string or our favorite, debris on the back stop. You could always shoot standing, kneeling or off the other shoulder. Precise equipment is all good but we are the weak link so maybe it's us that need improving? I know that my weakness is standing and I shoot a lot of deer off sticks so that's what I practice on the range.

Also these skills once learnt are transferable to other weapons, not even just rifles. Have some fun on the range and get off the bench!
 

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My wife shot my .22lr at 100yds yesterday. She's never shot it that far and she kicked ass.
 
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It always amazes me that guys spend months and money working up the best loads, then quickly publish all the results to anyone who will listen. Thanks. You all and many others have helped me find what works in my 700's.
 

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Hi everyone , forgive me if I mispell or wrong expression I am intended to do !!!

[QUOTE
=NattyB;390685]It always amazes me that guys spend months and money working up the best loads, then quickly publish all the results to anyone who will listen. Thanks. You all and many others have helped me find what works in my 700's.[/QUOTE]
Since I bought mag rifle & target rifle I got involved to reloading , I am DIY guy make a ton of mistakes . I have couple coworker ( friend ) gave me advice buy some magazines , reload manual , go to website did all , finally end up here & couple hides , thankfully to all topics , experience your share with me or or someone new learning , yes we knew your maybe a sharp shooter a gunsmith or markmans put up & share in S F , trust me I don't mind to listen , learn what give from good knowledge & share if I could , but hard for me put my self on share because I think it's good
for me but I don't know is coud help or not ? I did try my best, that why we had these forums
but if I been attached by someone thinking that not good enough for , excuses me I am not defend
or offense , just be here to learn share what I could enjoy my self for it , learning& knowledge is the
free way stay in my scourse , exit ,get in , point A to point B , maybe one of those reasons some one
quited ,maybe this only me don't take too seriously , your all have a good day
Be best for all , Vutan ( paper hunter )
 

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OK, what I used was: Remington 700 SPS Varmint 26" heavy Barrel ALL FACTORY Remington with exception of a Rifle Basix trigger. In .308 caliber.
Mueller 8X32 X44mm Tactical scope (Mil-Dot)

The ammo: Lapua Brass .308
Federal 210M Primers
Sierra 168gr HPBT Match
IMR4064 42.0 grains

From a bench, Harris bipod front, sand bag rear, 3 five shot groups, result, all shots touching, essentially one big hole at 100 yards, for each group shot. (Sorry, no pictures, no camera, Imma old man, wouldnt know how
to put a picture up here even if I tried.

Those were my results, not saying you will get the same. I'm kinda meticulous when handloading, so maybe my fair shooting was because of good ammo, and a good load...all of which, btw, I got from this thread here.
all cartridges and loading done to what suits me.

As an aside, I shot 5 cartridges thru a Chrony, The high velocity was 2708 FPS, the low was 2698 FPS. For what it's worth.
 

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I'm working on a load for my M1A and I came across this forum. I'm very excited about the idea of cheating into a sub MOA load. Unfortunately, I had bought a thousand Nosler Custom Competition in 168 grain because they were available at the time and SMK was not. Components have been very hard to get these past few years!

My plan is to get a box of the Nosler Custom Competition ammunition as my "crib sheet", and use IMR 4064 and Wolf match large rifle primers in either Lake City 1977 match brass or Federal match brass using the OCW system to find the most accurate.

I've done some handloading and load development in handguns, but this will be my first time loading rifle ammunition. I have a few questions for you experienced accuracy loaders.

First, I can get the LC match brass new from a friend, but unfortunately he's seen the prices match brass is going for and thinks it's worth nearly a dollar per case. We had previously been talking about 3 for a dollar. However, he does have some apparently once-fired Federal match brass from a friend's estate which he'll let go for maybe 20 cents per case.

Is it worth it to get the new LC brass at 4 or 5 times the price, versus the gently used Federal? I don't expect to get more than an average of 3 more loadings out of them anyway, since I'm loading in a gun that beats up and throws around the brass.

Second, my friend claims that he and many others he knows have had issues with Nosler bullets. They've had them do all sorts of things including disintegrate in flight, and he says there are significant inconsistencies in ogive measurements between lots, unlike SMK. Of course, that could have been 30 years ago for all I know. Yet I don't see many people here using Nosler bullets in their loads. Did I make a big mistake buying 1000 Noslers?

Are there any other considerations I have to account for with my choice of components and rifle?

Last, I've taken off the standard NM flash hider, and therefore front sight, to install a muzzle brake, but haven't mounted the scope yet. Therefore I'll have to sight in the rifle as well. Is there a good way to avoid buying factory ammo to sight it in, maybe use a laser bore sighter and some of the pressure testing and fouling shots to get the iron sights close, and then sight the scope with the most accurate load from the OCW testing?
 

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Unfortunately, I had bought a thousand Nosler Custom Competition in 168 grain because they were available at the time and SMK was not. Components have been very hard to get these past few years!
What do you mean "unfortunately". The Nosler Custom Competition bullets are a lot better than current production (based on the last few boxes I bought) SMK's.

I just finished sorting a box (250) SMK's and found a total spread in base to ogive measurement of .012" distributed into 4 length groups. When measuring a box of Custom Competitions for comparison I found that the total spread in base to ogive measurement was .002". Nosler claims to not mix production lots and use the same machine for each. Apparently Sierra isn't as concerned and just fills boxes from several different production dies.

The Custom Competition bullets from Nosler are essentially clones of the corresponding SMK's (168 and 175 gr weights). I even load mine using the same data. They perform exactly the same as long as I sort the SMK's for base to ogive length.

For my rifle I've found that the closest "match" to the current MK316 Mod 0 ammo comes from an FC case, 175 gr SMK or Custom Comp, Fed GM210M primer, 42.3 gr of IMR-4064, and a COAL of 2.800". For 168 gr loads I use 1 full grain more of IMR-4064. Great accuracy but again, that's in MY rifle.
 

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Thanks, that makes me feel a lot better. Orkan posted an article at his Primal Rights site where he weighed a sample of bullets from several manufacturers, and Nosler showed the most variation. Between that and my friend's experience I thought I'd have to use the Noslers for plinking! It would make sense that they're much more careful with the Custom Competition line.

I looked at the head stamp on the brass my friend has, and it's not Federal, it's FA or Frankford Arsenal, 64 Match. I know there was an issue with '57 FA brass, and I've heard that Federal GMM brass is soft and tends to expand in the primer pocket after a few reloads, but this FA 64 Match brass seems like a real good deal even if it is 50 years old. Maybe it'll lend some experience to my hand loads!

Also, I had a disappointment. I thought I had some match primers, but I was wrong. All I have for Large Rifle are Wolf, which doesn't inspire my confidence. I'd gotten those because because they were available and suitable for use in a semi-automatic like my M1A. Which match primers are hard enough for use in this rifle?
 

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For what it's worth, there is nothing wrong with Wolf primers. I have been shooting them in my 223 and haven't had any misfires yet. I have complete confidence in them. You have very good components there, now put em all together and shoot....just don't rush the reloading, take your time and try to get all of the powder measurements the same....a good scale will help. I too use Nosler Custom Competition bullets...168 gr. I see no difference with them and the SMK's....being meticulous with your handloading will give you outstanding ammo. Practice will make you an outstanding shooter.
 

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For what it's worth, there is nothing wrong with Wolf primers.
I'd like to say that there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with Wolf Primers.

I ran a string of 20 rounds (178 gr A-max, 42.5 gr IMR 4064, Nosler Brass, Wolf Primers) over the chronograph last Thursday. 4 groups of 5 avg'd in the "30's" and the SD was 7.5 fps. Of all the primers I've used I've had the best long term performance, both in accuracy and speed variations, than the so-called "Match" or "Bench Rest" primers. Better yet, the Wolf/Tula Primers cost me half that of the others.

I had a few misfires for a while but when I changed my priming tool they all went away.
 

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Since I only want a round to shoot out to 700 yards from my M14 clone this Democrat duplicates M852 per TM43/27 Match loads with Laupa brass, 168 MKs and 41.5 grains IMR4895 or 42.5 grains IMR4064. May give VVN150 or RE15 a try, but the IMR powders are really good. Anyone care to share their 4895 or 4064 loads with this MK?
Bruce25
 

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Since I only want a round to shoot out to 700 yards from my M14 clone this Democrat duplicates M852 per TM43/27 Match loads with Laupa brass, 168 MKs and 41.5 grains IMR4895 or 42.5 grains IMR4064. May give VVN150 or RE15 a try, but the IMR powders are really good. Anyone care to share their 4895 or 4064 loads with this MK?
Bruce25
I get great accuracy (sub 1/2 MOA) using 42 gr IMR 4064, lapua brass, Wolf/Tula Primer, and 175 gr SMK seated to mag depth (2.800"). I'm about to rework this load for some 168 SMK's I have left over (500-600 or so). Last time I shot them with 4064 I used exactly one grain more powder with same case and primer @ Mag length.

This is in a bolt action so YMMV in the Semi.
 
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