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Here's Mad's Benchmark load through my 20" Hbar Olympic, 50 yards iron sights, off sand bags. The ejection pattern was right, slightly rearward. The rounds ended up in one pile. Clean burning.





Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter #22
As you can see from Jeff's target, Benchmark produces uniform results.

Now let's discuss the pictures. In the last picture, you can see the Dillon Cartridge case headspace guage. You can see that it resembles the chamber of a gun. You can also see in the picture that one end of the chamber is stepped. The case chambered within the guage must sit slightly higher than the stepped portion of the guage. The case must also sit flush with the non-stepped part of the guage. You simply run your finger over the stepped portion of the guage and you should be able to feel the case head sitting ever so slightly above the surface of the guage.

The other headspace guage picture shows a case inside the Dillon tool. This view is from the top of the guage. And as you can see, the case does not protrude from the guage. Thus we can tell that this case does not need to be trimmed.

The other pictures show the Dillon primer pocket swaging tool. The black projection that you see on the right side of the tool is the swager. When you lower the operating handle, the swager pushes forward. And in the pictures, you can also see the steel rod that I mentioned earlier. The case sits upon the steel rod and the rod is lowered so that the primer pocket lines up with the swager. When the operating handle is lowered, the swager gets jammed into the primer pocket and the primer crimped is removed.

Now all of this may sound convoluted, but trust me it is easy. Even my cat can figure it out.

Just look at the pictures and don't be discouraged. And if you print out my ravings and read them in conjunction with the instructions that come with the various tools, then you will be ok. And please feel free to send me a PM. I would be glad to explain things further.


Mad.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
I just sent Jeff two more pictures. The first picture shows some of the Benchmark that I used.

The second picture shows the Dillon headspace guage in use. Notice how the cartridge case fits neatly into the die. The case fits slightly above the stepped surface of the guage. The case also fits flush with the non stepped area of the guage.

I should also mention that the Dillon headspace guage is also made in .308 caliber. You can use all the techniques I've recommended to also load military .308 brass. The Dillon Primer Pocket Swaging Tool will also work for swaging military .308 brass. And of course you can also get a .308 trim die too.

I will be away for a few days and then we will load a few rounds and I will
show how the seating die is adjusted and how the Lee Factory Crimp die works. And at the end of my long harangue, I want to hear from you. Of course, I wiill also post the part numbers of all the equipment used and where you can buy these items.

Mad.
 

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Hey, Mad, you thinking of doing one of these for 7.62X39? Don't want to start a sh!tstorm of a rifle debate, but I've relegated my AR-15 to fun and plinking use. My SHTF rifle is an AK-47. Let's leave that argument to the rifle forums, OK? :lol: .

Wondering if the AK cartridge would be any different. I'd start off by buying 1,000 rounds of Federal American Eagle 7.62X39 at ammoman.com, then reload the cases as I shoot them.

I want 1,000 rounds of my "base" rounds, the 7.62X39 and .45ACP. My other stuff I can keep in smaller quantities. Prolly should have 1,000 9mm, too, even though I don't shoot it much. That could be for 'sharing'.

John
 

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Discussion Starter #27
The other day I had an idea. I decided to use my RCBS precision mic to measure my sized cases. Recall that I sized the cases to exactly fit inside my Dillon headspace guage.

Cases sized to fit inside the Dillon headspace guage measured "zero" inside the RCBS precision mic.

This tells me that if you size your brass to fit inside the Dillon guage, your cases will be sized for absolutely minimum headspace. ( "Headspace Zero") Cases so sized will fit into any .223 chamber.

I measured fired cases from one of my rifles and they measure +3. This means that the headspace of this rifle is three thousanths over the minimum. Ammo sized in my die will expand by three thousanths in this rifle.

The RCBS precision mic told me several things:

1. The rifle has safe headspace;
2. The Dillon headspace guage works exactly as advertized. If a round will fit inside the Dillon guage it will fit in any .223 chamber.
3. Brass expands by .003" inside my rifle.

Now for loading .308 ball ammo, I recommend that the Dillon headspace guage be used in order that the sized cases are all at headspace zero.


Mad.
 

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NOV/2007 Shooting Times magazine has a good write-up on swagging .223 with spent .22LR cases and lead wire. It is probably alot of the same info as AR15.com Also just my 2 cents on .223 reloading, I NEVER crimp and have had no feed/jamb issues in my AR15.
 

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I've found a source for once-fired brass.

There's Federal, Lake City, Winchester, and Winchester Military (WCC 2004). Is there one in particular I should buy?

Link to brass supplier: Brassman
 

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JohnCollins said:
I've found a source for once-fired brass.
Brassman is a good place to buy brass.

JohnCollins said:
There's Federal, Lake City, Winchester, and Winchester Military (WCC 2004). Is there one in particular I should buy?
Lake City uses the hardest alloy and the case walls are thicker than the rest. This is why LC brass is typically sought after, as in most rifles it will exhibit longer case life (not always, as is the case with the M14, but usually). Don't get too worked up about LC Match brass if you find it, either...Materially and dimensionally speaking, LC Match and LC is identical. Only difference is, LC Match has annealed necks and no primer crimp. The primer crimp is easy to remove, and one can anneal their own necks if they feel the need. Keep in mind if you use LC brass, that as the case walls are thicker, you will need to down load them a little; the same load in other brass will be hotter and potentially dangerous in LC.

The next brass I'd buy is Winchester, followed by Winchester Military. Like LC and LC Match, there's no material difference between the Winchester brasses, except that WCM has primer crimps. Otherwise, WC brass is extremely durable as well, just not quite as good as LC.

Lastly, I'd buy Federal. There's nothing wrong with Federal, only that it's softer than LC or WC, therefore you'll either have to be kinder it to it, or throw it away in fewer reloads. Federal lacks the primer crimp as well, saving you some work. If you're making ammo to stockpile, I'd go with the Federal since you wont be shooting it out all the time, due simply to cost. Of course, if you're only going to buy 500 or 1,000 pieces, cost isn't so much a factor...But if you buy 10,000 pieces, that $5 difference adds up to $50.
 

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Wow! :shock: Thanks for the reply, Recoil!

The knowledge available on this board is amazing!

I'll probably start with 2,000, so I'll get the Lake City, the $10 won't matter. I need to get the Dillon crimp removing tool anyway, for a bunch of .30-06 brass I've been shooting.

Thank you, sir! Much obliged!

John
 

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No problem. You've chosen wisely. The Dillon tool is excellent for crimp removal, too...Best thing out there for the job.

ETA: I forgot to mention...A lot of military brass was fired from a 240 or 249, which are typically set to a long headspace. That means you gotta take care with your case prep. Light machine guns aren't very good on brass. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #35
RE HEADSPACE:


The Dillon headspace gage is very important. When you use this tool, you can very easily check the headspace of your sized cases. The Dillon headspace tool also lets you quickly check case lengths. And as an added bonus you can also check your loaded rounds in this gage.

If the rounds fit inside the case gage, then they will fit inside your chamber.


Mad
 

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why do we call it the .223 if we load .224 bullets into it?

another question: I am, even as we speak, loading Hornady 52 gr HPBT. Hornady charts a load of 24.2 gr IMR 3031 to achieve 3200 fps. The chart does not indicate that this is a compressed load, but when I dump the charge into the case, it fills it right up into the case neck. After a few taps it settles down, but I am sure the base of the bullet is in contact with the powder. They show a charge as high as 25.5, but I dont think I could possibly fit a charge that size into the case.

FWIW I am using an avoirdupois scale... an old, all milled, all metal Redding scale. I check the zero every time I start to reload.
 

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What cases are you loading? NATO spec cases will have less capacity.

Rigger
 

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funny you should respond so quick..

I am loading some brass headstamped C B C, which I looked up online. People have identified it as brass from a Brazilian manufacturer. I am now loading the same charge weight into brass stamped R P and the volume is much more what I expected to see...

before I invest in a bullet puller, I guess I may shoot a couple rounds of the c b c stuff, and check for excessive pressure signs :?
 

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stiffler said:
before I invest in a bullet puller, I guess I may shoot a couple rounds of the c b c stuff, and check for excessive pressure signs :?
I wouldn't, in fact, DON'T. I can guarantee you'll see pressure sign's. Pull the bullets and reduce that load by 1 grain minimum.

Rigger
 
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