Sniper & Sharpshooter Forums banner

41 - 60 of 73 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
770 Posts
that's exactly what i did.

I got to thinking about it and felt silly. When I saw that the suggested charge was filling the case above what I expected to see, I was embarassed that I didnt immediately understand what was going on.

This seemed like a good time to invest the $20 in a bullet puller. I was pleased with how simply and effectively it worked.

I reduced the charge from 24.2 to 22.5.

I'm glad I got a clue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,249 Posts
Interesting. If in doubt - don't! Glad you had the common sense not to fire them.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,333 Posts
I'm glad you decided to pull the bullets, Better safe than sorry.

Rigger
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
103 Posts
Ran some test loads using 77 gr SMK with RX15, Varget, and N140 powders out of my Colt M4 with ACOG 4x scope at 100 yds. Out of the three powders, the Varget produced the best accuracy.

Load:

Bullet: 77 gr SMK
Case: Winchester
Trim Length: 1.750"
Primer: WSR
Powder: Varget
Charge: 23.5 gr
COL: 2.260"
Group Size: 1.25"
Velocity: N/A
SD: N/A
ES: N/A

Conditions: 89 degree, Elev. 110', WSW 4
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,176 Posts
WOW :shock: . Case prep is a royal PITA!!! Thankfully you don't need to trim every time you reload and only need to use the Dillon Super Swage once. Man, this is time consuming.

I collected 129 pieces of range brass the other day and decided to see what I could do with them. About 4 had to be discarded. They were a mix of crimped and not crimped, but they were all brass. After cleaning, I sized and deprimed them (Lee dies).

Then I set up a prep area, clamped my Dillon Super Swage down after adjusting it, and put the Lee lock stud on a Sears Craftsman 18v electric drill/driver, set on the Lo speed range. I used the Lee cutter with the ball handle for trimming and the Lee chamfer tool, all on the drill. Then I used a Lee primer pocket cleaning tool, then the Super Swage, then the Dillon headspace gage, then into a coffee can.

I can tell you, this is no fun! But the brass looks pretty as a picture! I found some CCI Military small rifle primers in the black & white box, and I have 1,000 Winchester 55 gr. FMJ with the cannelure. And plenty of IMR-4064.

Here's what I got from the IMR Powder website for load data.

Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
55 GR. SPR SP IMR IMR 4064 .224" 2.200" 23.0 2867 40,300 PSI 25.7C 3201 52,600 PSI
Sorry it's all bunched together, but it's a low of 23.0 grains for 2867 fps to a high of 25.7 grains for 3201 fps.

The brass is mixed. I was assuming that the speed difference is smooth across this range (I don't know that to be true), and therefore, 24.1 grains ought to give me about 3000 fps, give or take.

I don't want to futz around with the chrono for this, and I don't want to separate the brass and all that. This is supposed to be close to and XM193 clone, not target ammo.

Am I safe just loading them all up with 24.1 grains of 4064, solidly in the middle of the recommended range? I just want to get to mass producing ammo, and I'm getting more brass this weekend at a gun show.

Thanks!

John

P.S. The Sierra reloading manual shows their 55 gr FMJBT (pretty much identical to the Winchester, I think) yielding 2700 fps with 24.8 gr of IMR-4064. They show max load of 25.8 grains for 2900 fps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
JCinPA said:
Am I safe just loading them all up with 24.1 grains of 4064, solidly in the middle of the recommended range? I just want to get to mass producing ammo, and I'm getting more brass this weekend at a gun show.
Short answer yes with a but...

Long answer is no with a couple of reasons ;-)

The reasons for this is that your firearm could have a tighter chamber than the one that was used for testing. There isn't a heck (whoa, he11 hits the profanity check :eek: ) of a lot of time lost working up loads to either
a) find the max pressure in your rifle with the powder used or
b) (and the more preferred method) finding the most accurate load when looking at bullet, powder & primer selection *which might not always be the fastest either*

Don't just pick a number out of a book and stick with that, reloading manuals are ALL different due to the number of different factors that are in the equation when testing powders, primers, projectiles and so on and so forth

I've not personally used OCW load development method, but I will be when my 223AI comes back from the smith, but from what I understand, OCW allows a reloader to find the 'sweet spot' where most incidental factors (such as temperature) don't affect the load as much, sort of like a ladder test, but due to some research 'better' for the person (Dan Newberry) who came up with it (or at least published it online)

rgds

Meat
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,176 Posts
Thanks for the reply. Yes I have been made aware of OCW process and will use it soon for my Savage .308.

What I'm looking for here is not "better" ammo, but least common denominator ammo, like factory ammo. It should work in any rifle and be safe. The headstamps on the brass are rem, BHA and FC (whatever that is).

I'm just looking for a safe charge of IMR-4064 with a 55 gr. FMJBT I know will be safe in any properly functioning rifle. This is not an exercise in making better loads, although I like doing that in other rifles. This is strictly a safe load I can confidently use with any range brass I pick up in pretty much any rifle. And I want to make lots of it. Since it could be used in any rifle, like commercial ammo, testing for a specific rifle seems not to make sense?? I full-length resized and am using the Dillon Case Gage, so I am not worried about getting it to chamber.

Because I may use different cases, I realize this may not be optimal. Call this plinking ammo. I will also likely work up a good load for a specific type of brass and one rifle, but later.

Does that change your answer? Thanks again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
JCinPA said:
I'm just looking for a safe charge of IMR-4064 with a 55 gr. FMJBT I know will be safe in any properly functioning rifle.
Gday JCinPA,

This doesn't change my answer at all, you still don't know if your rifle in its current configuration will have any pressure issues with regards to a middle of the road load using IMR-4064 (unless you've already loaded some up and had a go with them?)

I'm still advocating working up from the minimum (to stop at the midway point if you so desire) might burn a bit more powder than you want to to make sure that its ok, better to be safe than sorry though.

rgds

meat
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
DO NOT TRY TO DRY YOUR CASES IN AN OVEN. YOU WILL DAMAGE THE HEAT-TREATMENT OF THE BRASS AND YOU RISK BRASS FAILURE AND THE DESTRUCTION OF YOUR FIREARM SHOULD YOU USE OVEN HEATED BRASS!!
I've always used the oven to dry my brass. I set the oven no warmer than 150 degrees. Do you feel this will damage the brass & is my firearm at risk? Thanks & God Bless................Creeker
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Ammo loaded with H-335 should be faster than ammo loaded with Benchmark. I would expect that H-335 would give an additional 100 fps of muzzle velocity. But H-335 has a slower burn rate than IMR-3031. I feel that H-335 will place greater stress on an AR-15 or an M-16. I don't want to dig up the old Vietnam ball powder controversy again. But I feel that parts will last longer with a steady diet of Benchmark.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
284 Posts
I was case prepping some once fired remington match brass shot from my savage bolt rifle.

I did a lot with neck only sizing and a couple full length sized. Measured the inside diameter of the neck and consistently got .218 to .220" from my frankford arsenal digital calipers. Is this too much neck tension on the bullet? My 308 loads felt tight but seemed like good tension. This 223 brass seems too tight for the 69gr smks. I mean, it will seat with the die, but will this harm accuracy pinching the bullet this much? I'm reading .001 to .003 desired neck tension on most forums online. Just curious what your thoughts are. Thanks.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,234 Posts
Htran, that's quite a lot of tension. They should be no less than 0.220", otherwise, you start to use the bullets as a sizing tool...guess which is harder: copper or brass... :wink:

If you're bushing neck sizing, you need to go up a notch or two on the bushing.

For single-fed bolt-action rounds, we look for 0.001" tension, if it's to be fed from bolt action mags, I'd still run 0.003" tension so that in case I have one nose into the feed ramp a little too directly, I could rest easy knowing it didn't seat the bullet a tenth deeper.

In autoloaders fed from mag, 0.003" tension is a requirement.

If it makes you feel better, with good cases and uniform necks, I've seen fairly little improvement in accuracy from 0.0035" to 0.001" tension. I load just about everything near 3 thousandths, and they all shoot fine.

My obvious bias is that I am not a benchrester. But neither are you. :lol:

-Nate
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
284 Posts
Thanks Nate. I was thinking it seemed like too much. I guess I'll either polish the mandrel or see if lee can send me Replacement mandrel. I've tried a couple different brands of brass and I think the lee collet neck sizer is the problem. Im gonna shoot primarily bolt, and have no problem with single feeding if need be.
I guess my next question then is....can I salvage this brass? It's primed already :( If so, how?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,137 Posts
Well, got my lee dies, stopped and picked up some 68gr Hornady bthps. Some benchmark, and some h4895.

I'm gonna load up some rounds next week with both and see what happens, hopefully the the h4895 preforms well since I use that in my auto 30-06, and maybe my 308 when that's ready to go and i'll have the need for one powder!

I'll post pics later, also bought a new handguard for my ar.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
I use Varget for all my AR ammo and .308.....just makes it easier for me.....I have never crimped any of my AR ammo and have never had any issues after many thousands of rounds. I am working on loading 1800 rounds now....1000 will be FMJ, 500 SP's and rest Sierra HP's...all 55 grain....I load the FMJ at 25 grains and the SP/HP's at 26 grains....they all work well in my AR's and bolt gun...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,851 Posts
I use Varget for all my AR ammo and .308.....just makes it easier for me.....I have never crimped any of my AR ammo and have never had any issues after many thousands of rounds. I am working on loading 1800 rounds now....

With Varget it really hard to have a problem with "setback" so crimping really wouldn't be necessary. With Varget it fills cases so full there's no room for the bullet to go and Varget seems to "like" compressed loads.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
With Varget it really hard to have a problem with "setback" so crimping really wouldn't be necessary. With Varget it fills cases so full there's no room for the bullet to go and Varget seems to "like" compressed loads.
do you think it would be the same with h414? it fills the case and in hodgdon manual it only shows a top load not a starting but the top load has a pressure on just over 40000 psi load pressure with a 3100 fps with a 55 grain bullet and high load density.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,851 Posts
do you think it would be the same with h414? it fills the case and in hodgdon manual it only shows a top load not a starting but the top load has a pressure on just over 40000 psi load pressure with a 3100 fps with a 55 grain bullet and high load density.
H-414 is a different type of powder than Varget. Varget is an extruded powder and when the case is filled there is some space around the granules. Compressing will reduce this some but not enough as a rule to cause severe pressure spikes. H-414 is a ball powder and can often lead to some sudden pressure increases as the load is compressed. Unless Hodgdon has tested H-414 with Compressed loads which are usually indicated in their load data I would avoid compressing it. Just because "Cousin Clem" wrote in a Forum that "I've dun it and ain't had no problems" doesn't mean that you won't.

FWIW, Hodgdon's online manual doesn't list H-414 as a recommended powder for the .223 with a 55 gr bullet. Way too slow and doesn't show up on their data until you get to the 82 and 90 gr bullets. The heavier bullets can utilize the slower burn rates. What you may find with a "case full" of 414 is a slow bullet and a nice large fireball in front of the muzzle.
 
41 - 60 of 73 Posts
Top