the SA-80
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yes they use the M-16 because the SA80 is pritty much a trademark of hte british army and everyone around the world uses the M-16morpheus said:
and we wil be using the XM8 ugh!!! what an ugly gunYimmy said:
why not improve teh gas tube on the M-16 so you would have an m-16 with a different gas tube, no need to re-train troops on how to shoot, operate, clean etc
and ok they wont but whats wrong with the G36 thats already proven... if the M-16 must go that would atleast be a worthy successor!!!
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339 Posts
What do you mean M20?
The M16 is by no means crap. It's one of the most successful designs in history.
Personally, I think the SA80 is crud. There are some who do and some who don't.
Yes, SAS does use the M16. And yes, the XM8 is a piece of crud, but so was the M16 when it was first adopted.
But apart from making it look like an anal probe, and saving a single kilo of the weight - are there any differences between the M8 and the G36 :?:
For a single kilo on a lightweight rifle, I really don't think it's worth spending that much money on giving it plastic look..but hey, they could have spent it all on booze, I guess.
For a single kilo on a lightweight rifle, I really don't think it's worth spending that much money on giving it plastic look..but hey, they could have spent it all on booze, I guess.
Yimmy... tough question :
WHY WOULD YOUR ROYAL MAGESTY'S Special Air Service ( SAS ) AND Special Boat Service ( SBS ) USE OFFICIALY THE CANADIAN VERSION OF M16 ?
a. BECAUSE THEY DON'T DISTINGUISH A GOOD FROM A BAD WEAPON?
b. BECAUSE THEY WANT TO GIVE THE ENEMY A CHANCE?
C. BECAUSE BETTER CRAP THAN NOTHING?
d. BECAUSE IT'S A FINE WEAPON FOR THE JOB?
IF YOU CHOOSE d. YOU GET THE FOLLOWING LINK:
http://www.dragonmodelsltd.com/html/701 ... ge%201.htm
IF YOU CHOOSE A, B, C YOU GET THIS OTHER ONE:
http://www.dragonmodelsltd.com/html/70113page2.htm
Bruno
WHY WOULD YOUR ROYAL MAGESTY'S Special Air Service ( SAS ) AND Special Boat Service ( SBS ) USE OFFICIALY THE CANADIAN VERSION OF M16 ?
a. BECAUSE THEY DON'T DISTINGUISH A GOOD FROM A BAD WEAPON?
b. BECAUSE THEY WANT TO GIVE THE ENEMY A CHANCE?
C. BECAUSE BETTER CRAP THAN NOTHING?
d. BECAUSE IT'S A FINE WEAPON FOR THE JOB?
IF YOU CHOOSE d. YOU GET THE FOLLOWING LINK:
http://www.dragonmodelsltd.com/html/701 ... ge%201.htm
IF YOU CHOOSE A, B, C YOU GET THIS OTHER ONE:
http://www.dragonmodelsltd.com/html/70113page2.htm
Bruno
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339 Posts
Ok, this is totally irrelavent, but I thought the Coldstream Guards used the FAL for the same reason our 3rd Infantry Regement used M14s.
re
Nobody uses the SLR anymore; the SA-80 isn't great for parades, but it's okay.
There are still a few SLR's laying around in armouries, but they are not officially used.
Remember, those guards are doing a real job, they are not just there for the ceremonial side of things, hence why in that picture they still have the SUSAT.
Ferrer, the SAS use numerous weapons, including the SA-80, the C7, C8, M203, Minimi, Gimpy, G3, MP5 etc etc....
The C7 allows for greater deniability of operations than the SA-80, and the regiment were using the M16 long before the SA-80 was on the scene. Not that the M16 doesnt have some advantages, despite its awful operating system. It is lighter and easier to wield and march with for a start.
Nobody uses the SLR anymore; the SA-80 isn't great for parades, but it's okay.
There are still a few SLR's laying around in armouries, but they are not officially used.
Remember, those guards are doing a real job, they are not just there for the ceremonial side of things, hence why in that picture they still have the SUSAT.
Ferrer, the SAS use numerous weapons, including the SA-80, the C7, C8, M203, Minimi, Gimpy, G3, MP5 etc etc....
The C7 allows for greater deniability of operations than the SA-80, and the regiment were using the M16 long before the SA-80 was on the scene. Not that the M16 doesnt have some advantages, despite its awful operating system. It is lighter and easier to wield and march with for a start.
the m-16 is also easier to reload since the mag is right in front of ya easier to disassemble and clean and there are others too
why not improve the gas system on the M-16 and m4 or perhapes our new strategy is to make the enemy laugh to death when they see us with these Xm8 toys
why not improve the gas system on the M-16 and m4 or perhapes our new strategy is to make the enemy laugh to death when they see us with these Xm8 toys
Yimmy,
who is talking about marching man ?
Do you imagine SAS loaded with Saracen Bags gear loaded with even a Sniper rifle in ( AWS ) and a M16A2 COLT (M16A3 COLT) C8 whining about something ?
Are you military in first place ? Do you realy want to discuss AR-15 Pros and Cons ? If so lets cut the crap and go way back to the M14( withdrawn in 1968 ), M16A1, the hundred improvments sice Nam till Afgan...M4A1...
Bruno
who is talking about marching man ?
Do you imagine SAS loaded with Saracen Bags gear loaded with even a Sniper rifle in ( AWS ) and a M16A2 COLT (M16A3 COLT) C8 whining about something ?
Are you military in first place ? Do you realy want to discuss AR-15 Pros and Cons ? If so lets cut the crap and go way back to the M14( withdrawn in 1968 ), M16A1, the hundred improvments sice Nam till Afgan...M4A1...
Bruno
re
Hmmm..... where to start?
I'll take mels advice and put the club down I think.
First Jeff, have you tried changing the magazine on a bullpup? I can honestly say I have never changed the magazine of a conventional rifle (not that I remember anyway). Ergo I can not really compare, however I have never had any problem changing the mag of a bullpup.
As for field stripping, well, I think most modern rifles are fairly simple and quick to do....
Ferrer, if I am or am not anything to do with the military doesn't matter. The SAS, ie Special Air Service, do not have the possibility of taking a pinkie with them where-ever they go. They are recce soldiers, thery sit in OP's and go on patrols... they march like any other soldier, and I am sure they whine just as much and all. They are not superman.
I never have liked the AR15, because I have never liked its operating system, I feel the same way about the MAS49.
An M16 with a long barrel and a gas piston I am sure would be a fine rifle.
Hmmm..... where to start?
I'll take mels advice and put the club down I think.
First Jeff, have you tried changing the magazine on a bullpup? I can honestly say I have never changed the magazine of a conventional rifle (not that I remember anyway). Ergo I can not really compare, however I have never had any problem changing the mag of a bullpup.
As for field stripping, well, I think most modern rifles are fairly simple and quick to do....
Ferrer, if I am or am not anything to do with the military doesn't matter. The SAS, ie Special Air Service, do not have the possibility of taking a pinkie with them where-ever they go. They are recce soldiers, thery sit in OP's and go on patrols... they march like any other soldier, and I am sure they whine just as much and all. They are not superman.
I never have liked the AR15, because I have never liked its operating system, I feel the same way about the MAS49.
An M16 with a long barrel and a gas piston I am sure would be a fine rifle.
Yimmy:
i have on the bushy m-17 which is crap i think, dont know why such a great manufacturer (bushmaster) would make such a POS and theres more wrong with it than it just being a bullpup, the sights were crap i woudlnt want ot take a shot at 25y with it, accuracy was nothing special either, the owner was bitching about it and sold it
im just used to conventional rifles just like your used to bullpups it feels awkward to me to change a mag quickly while standing
the mag release is behind the mag well which is behind the trigger what im not a fan of
i have on the bushy m-17 which is crap i think, dont know why such a great manufacturer (bushmaster) would make such a POS and theres more wrong with it than it just being a bullpup, the sights were crap i woudlnt want ot take a shot at 25y with it, accuracy was nothing special either, the owner was bitching about it and sold it
im just used to conventional rifles just like your used to bullpups it feels awkward to me to change a mag quickly while standing
the mag release is behind the mag well which is behind the trigger what im not a fan of
:wink:
Yimmy... you mean Stoner SR-25
MAS 49/56 and also AG42 add the same Erik Eklund direct gas system ... WWII... long time ago.
40 years is a lot for a rifle to serve an army. only Government Model .45 pistol as done something similar....
Cubs down but AR-15 is a hell of a system... with pros and cons...like everything... IF YOU KEEP IT CLEAN!!! NO FOULING OCCURS.
friends as always.
Bruno
Yimmy... you mean Stoner SR-25
MAS 49/56 and also AG42 add the same Erik Eklund direct gas system ... WWII... long time ago.
40 years is a lot for a rifle to serve an army. only Government Model .45 pistol as done something similar....
Cubs down but AR-15 is a hell of a system... with pros and cons...like everything... IF YOU KEEP IT CLEAN!!! NO FOULING OCCURS.
friends as always.
Bruno
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1,794 Posts
Check out this article on the SA-80
http://www.millennium-debate.org/tel22july025.htm
and this one:
http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/SA80.html
Mad
http://www.millennium-debate.org/tel22july025.htm
and this one:
http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/SA80.html
Mad
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7,891 Posts
What I don't really like is how people tend to criticize or bring up flaws of the Nam era M-16s, as it has been said here, they have come a long way since then. I've read that some kinds with a piston, like the AR 180B are good too.
One thing I find shows a lot for the M-16 is how much Israel uses it, because they can get their hands on alot of other weapons too, like their new home developed Tavor bullpup.
From other things I have read, the SA-80 has had its share of teething problems too, but has evolved into a nice weapon.
One thing I find shows a lot for the M-16 is how much Israel uses it, because they can get their hands on alot of other weapons too, like their new home developed Tavor bullpup.
From other things I have read, the SA-80 has had its share of teething problems too, but has evolved into a nice weapon.
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