[Voldermortist]

what exactly is the big deal with these scopes? If memory serves me correctly, they were considered state of the art in 1981 and are now way outdated. or am I missing something? Why pay 2,500 for this sucker aside from name recognition and the "cool" factor? I've never understood why people invest such heavy money in a scope.

 

[mele]

Your points are well made.

The scope is still top of the line in terms of design, and the USO version is built to extremely high standards and has the latest in optical updates, so they are better than the original Unertl from the 1980's. But no, they are not worth the $2500 in my opinion. But that being said, they have the USMC contract, so they do not need to sell them to civilians to make money, so they might as well do it for a pretty penny. And yes, they do sell at that price.... primarily because of the "cool" factor.

MEL

 

[Kamatz]

I honestly think you'll get just as far with any other well known brand.

We Europeans often prefer German optics because it's supposedly the best there is. Not that I've done any tests that would verify that. And I really doubt the people who oh so bold claim their this-and-that Zeiss is x number of times clearer and brighter than - well, basically every other scope known to man.

What is for sure, though, is that high quality optics cost. The fact that I'm in the process of forking out nearly 20000NOK (just over 3000USD by todays exchange rate) for a PM II doesn't exactly put me in a position to say anything about the people who buy expensive optics In my defence, Norwegian prices are madly out of control. I think you Americans have to pay some 2-2200USD for the same scope - and the Germans have to pay around 1450EUR when shopping at the right place.

The cool-ness factor combined with the fact that S&B is extremely high quality - again combined with my..er..stupidity - will make, well, my wallet empty and some one else's a bit fuller. :Roll:

Edit: of course, the stupidity is even more extreme considering the fact that I already have a decent scope :roll:

edit again: I've gotten an "offer" on my old scope. So I have to ask...what is your unbiassed opinion, how many percent of todays market price can I take for it? It's hardly used at all as it was locked up in my gun cabinet waiting for the rifle. So basically, the only external marks on it would be from the rings...

 

[Northman]

Kamatz: why not just buy the scope in Germany. If I'm buying a german scope, I'll buy it in Germany. Not in Norway. Way way overpriced here.. And Zeiss is very "cheap" in Britan. Might save 1000 $.

 

[Kamatz]

I don't want no Zeiss. I want a S&B 3-12x50 P/M II with double-turn turrets and the P-1 reticle. And it'll actually cost more to import it from Germany than buying it at a specific shop here...at least if you pay the VAT... If not, well, that's illegal, so I'll stop there.

 

[American Rifleman]

The US Optics MST-100 is a very high end peice of optics. My only gripe with the scope is the nature of its design. It was designed to be adjusted to the "approximate" point of impact and then use lead / hold over to achieve a hit. I much preffer the more precise 1/4" adjustments rather than the 1/2" adjustments. The only thing "holding this scope back" is the adjustments. But im sure USO does not mind, they are thinking "oh man, we are sitting here with this nice scope and a USMC contract, making all this money, dang what did we do wrong?" :lol:

The Rifleman

 

[Voldermortist]

approximate is good for a tactical scope. you need to focus in on your target quickly. with 1/4 moa that's going to be a lot of turning. I plan on learning how my bullets travel with my upcoming new rifle and just using kentucky windage for my actual shots with game.

 

[mele]

Its the same on the leupold mk4 10x M3 knobs. 1 MOA elevation and .5 MOA windage adjustments.

Honestly, for its designed purpose, I wouldn't have it any other way! I put the same mk4 10x M3 on my bravo-51. For field sniper use, I personally find it ideal.

MEL

 

[north_shooter]

Unertl

I have to agree that it is way over priced. But Kamatz, you guys in Europe prefer German optics? Well let me tell, as a German living in Canada, I do like S&B, but the scopes made in Germany can't hold a candle to my US Optics SN-3. I had the S&B 4-16X50, fantastic scope, but not nearly as good as the SN-3. Just a note, the Canadian Forces Sniper Unit, recently switched scopes from the Unertl 10X to the US Optics SN-3 EREK 3.2-17 for thier new Sniper rifles systems.

 

[snowy]

I said it previously in another forum, but it works here too.

I think a lot of shooters are just as brand name crazy as fashion models.

The fixed 10X "M" class Leupold scopes sell for higher simply because of their military markings.

The nice thing about shooting is, a large bankroll will never replace rounds down range.

(left handed) snowy

 

[mele]

The fixed 10X "M" class Leupold scopes sell for higher simply because of their military markings.

While I agree with what you are saying, I do need to point out that the above statement is not "entirely" correct. While I'm sure some of the price is because of the military hype, the fixed 10x & 16x Mk4 scopes are NOT built the same as the other Mk4 line of scopes. There are additional features and construction methods not found on the other VXIII based Mk4 scopes. They are mostly for durability...

MEL

 

[snowy]

News to me.
What neat features am I missing?

-(left) snowy

 

[mele]

Mainly tube construction. Build more durable and the adjustments are different, I also think that includes the saddle portion of the tube. I believe the lenses are the same as the lenses on the LR Mk4 scopes. But the PR's are less quality lenses than the LR's.

MEL

 

[snowy]

Learn something new everyday round here. :wink:

-(L) snowy

 

[mele]

Yeah, the original Mark 4 scopes were designed for the army, completely seperate from all their other scope designs. The Vari-X series were different. The "Tactical" models were based on the Vari-X scopes, and the Mk4 Ultras a completely seperate scope. THEN, leupold confused everyone in 2004 when they combined all their "tactical" scopes under the Mark 4 name!!! Before, you used to have Vari-X II Tactical or Vari-X III tactical and you would know which scope series that tactical model was based on. NOW, you don't get that. Sure, you have PR and LR, but thats misleading, because the PR 3-9x is based on the VXII and the PR 3.5-10 & 4.5-14 are based on the VXIII scopes!!! (are you confused yet?) And the LR scopes have both VXIII models and Ultra Models in it!!!!

anyway, the summary is that the fixed 10x and 16x (Ultra based) are indeed different and costs reflect some of that.

MEL

 

[Kamatz]

Er...ok, that explanation alone pretty much convinced me to never buy a Leupold. I'd end up with the wrong scope

Anyway, my PM II is in the mail...I feel like a kid again :mrgreen:

 

[mele]

Er...ok, that explanation alone pretty much convinced me to never buy a Leupold. I'd end up with the wrong scope

Heh... yeah, could be some truth to that!! I think it was a mistake to change the designations like that, especially now that there is no clear deliniation between the quality of the Mk4 scopes by their name.

MEL

 

[Kamatz]

I would've wanted the Ultra 10x if I was to have a Leupold, I think.

But, variable is soooo handy..and, well, I don't think I'm going wrong with the PM II, either. Oh well, I'm just glad there's more than one brand on the market. The more, the merrier.

 

[Kamatz]

Oh my...!

I just picked up the brand new S&B PM II 4-16x50 with mildots. And what a scope! I mean seriously, it makes the NXS look almost cheap - which it wasn't!

What surprised me the most, though, was the fact that it felt even more rugged than the NXS. And that's hard to believe after tinkering with the NXS :shock:

So now I'm just waiting for TPS to hurry up! :mrgreen:

 

[American Rifleman]

And yes, they do sell at that price.... primarily because of the "cool" factor.

Yea, it says "USMC SNIPER" on it!!! Maybe it will make me a USMC Scout Sniper if i buy it!!! :roll: :lol:

There are a few things i would like to see them change on it.

1: Change the top BDC from the 173gr M-118 to the 175gr M-118LR.
2: Change the tube from 1" to 30mm.
3: For the price of $2500 it should come with a pair of the Badger rings and the Badger AN/PVS-10 optics attachment "thingy" that holds the night vision attachment onto the scope and replaces the top half of the front ring. ( sorry dont know "exactly" what its called )

I do however really like the large knobs with large easy to see and use adjustments. I also like how they changed the knobs from a plastic/rubber or whatever it was to CNC steel and how the entire scope is now water proof. ( the old UNERTL use to leak around the knobs )

The Rifleman