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Hello again scholars:

I have been in the Union of Socialist Soviet British Republics for the past week. ( formerly known as England)

First hand I have seen the awful debilitating effects of socialism.

Just do these things: Join the NRA. Join the JFPFO and join Gun Owners of America. And make sure to vote Republican.

Unless you are

Mad
 

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Clearly, we need more bashing of liberals in here. Mad should get himself some LEARNIN' done as to the current and past state of his wonderful republican party.

But yes, really, your gun laws are way too heavy.
 

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re

You sound as though you got into an argument over gun control with smeone madgunsmith?
 

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Soaring crime rate?
Whether it is going up or down depends on whos figures you believe.
 

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The University of Denmark... and Leiden University in Holland... and several others have all found that the crime rate in England... Wales... and Australia were in the top 5 Countries when it came to crime rate from 1990 to 2000. England's crime rate jumped over 400% in 3 years after the majority of guns were banned. Crime rate in Australia jumped over 600% in 3 years when the majority of guns were banned. (according to the study findings from University of Denmark and Leiden University in Holland and Australian... British... and Welsh Government statistics)

BC
 

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"England's crime rate jumped over 400% in 3 years after the majority of guns were banned"

BC, that is complete bollocks.

Firearm related crime has gone up slightly, but figures like the above are complete garbage.
 

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Im just going by what several major Universitys and the Government statics show... what the hell do they know.

BC
 

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Ballistic_Coefficiency said:
Im just going by what several major Universitys and the Government statics show... what the hell do they know.

BC
Well, give that the majority of universities tend to be left wing and anti-gun, I somewhat doubt they would present information which is pro-gun ownership.

I also somewhat doubt the government in power is going to post figures concerning how they farked up in their recent law.

Care to show these sources?
 

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The truth is very rarely the truth when it comes from the mouth of a politician.

And anyway you are misinterpreting what I am saying, you are only thinking of armed crime.

Crime in the UK has remained about equal, if not having gone down, since the firearm laws were further restricted.
Armed crime on the other hand, has raised fairly significantly, however it has not risen nearly so much as 400%.

I fully agree that gun law in the UK should be more liberal - I certainly do not believe making it harder to own a gun will stop gun crime. That said, I do not believe the UK should make gun ownership as liberal as it is in the US. Over here, gaining a license for a rifle is not as hard as many people think, finding a place to shoot the rifle is the majority of the problem - we do not have the wide open spaces you have.

"You've turned your law enforcement community into nothing more than well-dressed security guards"

Now, that is rubbish. Unless you have lived here, I do not believe you are in a position to make such a comment. In an ideal free country, would you rather your police had to be armed, or be able to do their job without needing the option of leathel force? I would hope the asnwer to be obvious. The British police in general do a very good job, and very rarely have to call in armed support. That said, I would be more than happy to bet on SO19 in a competition against any of your SWAT units.

As for your comments on the direction the UK is going, I am not sure I am happy with it either, however I am certain that the country I live in is as free as anyone could want it to be. Over here I think you will find there is less government intervention, propoganda and restrictions than there are over there, but then without living in each others country neither of us hold much water on the issue.
 

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Statistics from well know Universitys vs. Personal Opinion....... :?


Sry, but I've gotta side with the guys who did their homework on this one...
 

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The guys who did their homework?

Firstly, nobody has produced a source, and secondly, I live in the country - I think I would have noticed if crime went up 400%!
 

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I agree a source citation would be crucial at this point... but your skepticism, Yimmy, is as valid as the claim without source citation, as you yourself have no reason to say anything of the sort other than what you would see. Everyone is just spinning their tires.

That said, why must these conversations turn into ball-busting sessions? If you are an English citizen and like the rules, stay and be merry: if you're an American and don't like the rules of England, don't move there.

These debates are pointless and only brew hostility amongst one another. :?

Scatch Maroo
 

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personaly i think every country ought to have there own version of the MUSAD, but thats my opinion

but yah government reports arent always false, but theyre often misleading, do you know how bloody hard it is to even find information on there budget with even a semi detailed report? i find more on complete instructions from NASA on how to build one of there rockets than i do trying to find statistics from our intelligence agencies...

and i too know people from britain, and none of them have ever complained about crime...
 

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Re: re

Recoil said:
Yimmy said:
I also somewhat doubt the government in power is going to post figures concerning how they farked up in their recent law.
And why not? Using our own country as an example: Clinton's own beloved Justice Department reported that all that gun control passed in '93/'94 was worthless.

Not to mention the FBI's yearly Uniform Crime Report...

Last I checked, the JD and FBI were still part of the US government.

The Truth is The Truth, no matter who attempts to write fact and history.
An intresting note. After passing the crime bill, the crimes that had to be reported were scaled back, thus a staticical drop in crime. Where did I learn this, I used to work for the Sheriff Department and that is the guidelines we got from the DOJ.
 

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I think I read this in Guns and Ammo (which often has misleading articles about gun laws in Canada, making them out to be harsher than they are) but this one I kinda believe.

It said the RCMP lists crimes where a firearm is present even if it was not used in the commission of the crime, as "gun crime"...I truly hope this is not true...

But it shows if it is true, that there are two sides to every statistic. They try hard to justify gun registry. "Unregistered guns are used to commit the vast majority of gun crimes"...Well yeah, cause only criminals have unregistered guns to commit crimes with. The layman thinks registering more guns is the answer.

Maybe the same could be happening with England, both that facts could be being misused to make things seem lopsided, to justify the harsh laws, and gun publications are making things out to be worse than they are, saying "America can be the next Canada or England before we all know it!"

Either way, we both need more liberal gun laws.
 

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It all boils down to what Hitler said/did (someone has it as a sig line on here). Why would you (or anyone) want to be a subject to anyone or government entity (more so than we already are)? Do you not want the RIGHT to protect yourself at any time and any place you need to? I would like to see what would happen if the government would endorse concealed carry and grants/tax breaks for firearm training. It will never happen, but I would like to see it.

No offence Yimmy, but you are a product of a anti gun society, just as I am a product of a pro gun society (for the most part) and we shall never really see eye to eye. It is purely a different belief system.

Whether you are or agree with the Republican Party they are our last line of defense against the liberals and anti-gunners. If you vote any other way you are just throwing your vote away.
 

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some people dont relize they need to protect themselves
and think the police can protect them... thats even here in America our 'pro-gun society'
 
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