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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys, just thought I would let you know it looks like(weather depending) I will be out qualifying next Tuesday. I have two windshields and a ton of test ammo to shoot. I will try to document the whole day if possible with pics. MEL, you seem to be the review guru, I was planning to test all the ammo at 100 no barier for accuracy, and then repeat at 50 and 100 if possible through the glass. I will try to measure deflection, and to get pics of the spalling/bullet breakup damage after the glass. Do you have any other suggestions, and would you like a copy of the info? The shooting will be done by me with the 700, and also by a another Sniper using a SIG/Blaser 93 rifle. I wish we could test further out, but 100 is the max on the range available.

Without looking I will give a list of the ammo to be tested(might miss one or two though)

FED GM308 168BTHP
FED GM308 175BTHP
FED TAC 308 165 Bonded
REM 308 168 Match
REM 308 NBT 165
REM 308 PREM COR LOCT ULTRA
REM 308 SWIFT SCIRACO?
PMC 168 Match
Black Hills 168 Match
Black Hills 175 Match
American Ammo/IMI 175 Match
HSM 168Match
HSM 165 SP?
Ultra Max 168 BTHP(REMAN and New)
Ultra Max 165 BTSP(Reman and New)
Horanady TAP 110

This should give me a good sample of what is out there. I am looking for guidance here as well so give me any pointers guys on what info you might like to see. If I can get it I will try. Thanks in advance for the advice.

ML 313

If know the enemy and yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles -SunTzu

Practice does not make Perfect, PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT-OSP Drill Instructor
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I do usually use the Delaware range for most of my practice(should see some of the looks :shock: when I put up duty targets of faces and hostage taker shots, although I prefer to do this only when I know the guys present). I wil be doing this testing on CPD range, as they are helping me and that is also where I shoot for qualification. Plus it is only five minutes from HQ so I can go on duty real easy. :D

ML 313

If you know the enemy and yourself,you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles-SunTzu

Practice does not make perfect, PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT-OSP Drill Instructor
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Mel, I have to look in the ammo can, I might have one box of M118 1967 Special ball left, Thanks for reminding me to include it. Also for reminding me how low(hope not out) of it I am. Thanks for the tip on the distance from barrier to target, I will set one up at about 3 feet, and try to get one at 10. Muzzleblast, we are looking at the SP and bonded to see how they do, in penetration as they are supposed to retain weight pretty well, and should do well on glass. I also like the fact that since they mushroom the energy transfer to target should be high, which may limit pass through/ overpenetration problems on soft targets. The 110 Tap is supposed to be outstanding for that, have seen one incident report where at very short range(about 30yds if I remember right) where it did not exit the head.

As an side note, on a scenario shoot I was using 143FMJ, while my partner was using GM308, I had one through and through hole on a windshield, target, two van seats, and a back door panel. The GM308 started to fragment badly before hitting the target in the front pasenger seat. We both 278 yards distant about 10yds apart on slight down angle. That experience has spurred my interest in this kind of testing. I was shooting the M14, my partner was using a Wetherby 308. Let me know what format you want the results in MEL. I can post them here, or get them to you for review first just let me know.

ML313

Know the enemy and yourself, and you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles-SunTzu

Practice does not make perfect, PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT-OSP Drill Instructor
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Forgot to ask, Mel What would I owe you for a box or two of the M118 if I am out?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Amen on the budget, I cant thank the Ammo Companies enough for sending us the ammo. The glass is being removed from a cruiser that has a pitted windshield, and the glass Co is giving me one other damaged one.
I just picked the auto glass, as I figured being laminated it would be pretty tough and take a few rounds before breaking up.

ML313

Know the enemy and yourself, and you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles-SunTzu

Practice does not make perfect, PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT-OSP Drill Instructor
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I might have to try that angle shooting, as well as elevated, they have a tower.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
JeffVn, You must be a buckeye if you know about Delaware and Cirlceville? Hope your time here was ok. Sorry forgot to ask earlier
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Sounds Like fun, and I admit, I am looking forward to this as much as fun(all shooting is fun, except for the real shot for work), as I am for anything. This testing is going to be the way I choose my new ammo for work though, so It will done as right as I can do it. Hope you guys like the info.

ML313

Know your enemy and yourself, and you need not fear the outcome of 100 battles-SunTzu

Practice does not make perfect, PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT-OSP Drill Instructor
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hey AK I am having a few bourbon and Cokes myself tonight, the Quote Was drilled into us in a Course during my 4mo stay at OSP by a DI who was former LRP team leader in Nam. He used it in a Survial class he teaches called FAST, and he also taught a class called the 6 stages of dying that was very motivating. He is without a doubt the best instructor I have ever had, he knows people and he knows his stuff too. As far as I know he did 3 tours, and according to him has been to five of six stages of dying, and I must say I believe him. He is/was(retired now) an OSP Sniper and SRT team leader.

ML313

Know your enemy and yourself, and you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles-SunTzu

Practice does not make Perfect, PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT-OSP Drill Instructor
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Feeling the old Ezra(90 Proof half bottle here), know what you mean on the bonded. The SP from ultramax is standard speer soft point hunting bullet(god dont let me drive right now, sorry for the typing right now). It has a BC of over 5 so should be good at long range even though we usually are short range shooters. I may also pick up some 150CL REM Hunting Ammo just for kicks. THe 270 BBl on this action would do .75MOA with 130CL REM Hunting AMMO. Urban LE work is tough to balance Barrier penetration without over penetration on soft targets.
 

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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Hope I dont sound Too Bad! I will try to see if we can recover any of the bullets. This is a rare occasion for me(usually have work inthe AM), but Bourbon is my favorite drink, kind of raised on it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Hey, AK I thought you wer eolder, must be like me raised to respect alcohol not abuse it (HE HE). Or is it College, then just par for the course?
I still call the guy with questions, and he still meets me for dinner to give me help when I ask, like I said the best instructor I have ever had. Wen I was having trouble in the academy at one point he pulled me of fto the side and said look I think you got what it takes, but get your head out of yourass and get the job done. I was in shock, why did this guy care, I did not work for his agency but he went out of his way for me, I was staring, and he looke at me and said dont give me that 1000yd stare wake up and get inthe game. He and one other guy out there saved my ass before I even got started.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Might happen Canada, but we got Bush for four more years(Hope I dont offend anyone) but thank GOD. Plus I am one of the good guys I guess.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Know what you mean, Love the scenery in Canada though, would like it if the US had so much open area( call me a want to be hermit, but after working in the city, I long for the country of my youth), but the British roots, well just glad we won(no offense meant). Hey got to hit the sack, my 2 and 4 yr olds will be up by 0700, and its 0100 now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Hey guys, Kerry was a total anti-gunner, and even opposed the bill that granted LE nationwide concealed carry. In these Terror filled times why would somone oppose making ready trained first responders unable to carry nationwide(probably should be for any cancealed carry holder too).

ML 313

Know the enemy and yourself, and you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles-SunTzu

Practice does not make perfect, PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT-OSP Drill Instructor
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Hey guys sorry I have been away a couple days. Ice storm hit about 90 miles north of here, and my wife and I had to load up the generator, and head north to help her parents. Their power was out, and since we had flooding just before the ice they had water coming in the basement. Two days later, they still have no power and thank God I got Paranoid and picked up that Genset. I agree if I can get my hands on some Barnes tipped ammo I will add it to the list. My Shooting may be delayed though. I shoot with CPD, and We just lost an Officer who was shot during a bank robbery on WED. His funeral, and I am sure you understand that some things are more important than others, is on tuesday. We must honor him, and most of all catch the guy who did it, as he is still on the loose. Please keep his family in your thoughts and prayers. I will keep you posted, We may still shoot later this week.

ML313

Know the enemy and yourself, and you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles-SunTzu

Practice does not make perfect, PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT-OSP Drill Instructor
 

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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Hey guys looks like I should find out Monday when I will shoot. We have a good ID on a suspect in the shooting now, so I am pretty sure CPD SWAT will have their guys tied up trying to get him(Hope they get him if you know what I mean), and he needs to be got. The Officer was working special trying to make up lost income from his wife getting fired for seeking maternity leave(long story but thats the gist of it). He left behind a wife and six month old daughter, who will never know her father. Kind of puts things in perspective here.


ML 313

Know your enemy and yourself, and you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles-SunTzu

Practice does not make perfect, PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT-OSP Drill Instructor
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Thanks for the thoughts guys, sounds like the guy was caught this morning, he was spotted in DC yesterday, and then fled Officers there(he was at a hospital getting treated for gunshot wounds). He was then arrested here around 0900 today. He must really like to drive, that is about a 10hr trip each way to DC, but our hospitals were being watched here. For any who might be interested, all Fifth Third banks are accepting donations to a scholarship fund for the officer's daughter. MEL sorry if this was not appropriate, but any help will mean a lot to the family.

ML313

Know your enemy and yourself, and you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles-SunTzu

Practice does not make perfect, PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT-OSP Drill Instructor
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
Hey everyone, Let's cut GW some slack here, he has moved much more to the right so far this term(which does not start for another week or so). We must understand that he can not get everything he wants, and no politician can, at least I feel that he tries to do what he thinks is the right thing in his heart. He did sign the Conealed carry for LE bill, which Slick Willy fought for 8 years to keep off the floor of congress, he wants to reform social security, he has lowered taxes, and will I think get us started in the right direction. The big Govt was not built overnight, and it will not change overnight.


ML313

Know your enemy and yourself, and you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles-SunTzu

Practice does not make perfect, PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT-OSP Drill Instructor
 
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