[DOWDegan]

Mills measured in metric and standard?

Quick question... a number of you have given equations that give mils in 3.6"@100Y and then give the formule to complete your calculations. Why?

Last I checked, every military in the known world uses nearly every measurement of distance based on the (much more accurate IMO) metric system. Why? Easy... it's nearly idiot-proof. Oh, and it's interchangable with nearly every other military.

Picture giving an RAF pilot distance to target stated as 453. If he assumed (as he should) that you gave him the distance in meters, but you (after doing all that crazy math) gave him DTT in yards... I'd hope you weren't within that region where he drops his ammo.

Now I understand that there are a LOT of shooters here that aren't military but have the talent to shoot 1000m (Y?) shots on a regular basis. This is by no means my attempt to tempt them (I can't shoot that far myself... never tried honestly). But... and here I finally get to my point.... since a Mil-dot reticle is calibrated metric, why would you even bother trying to calculate your shots in standard?

 

[I Dares I Wins]

OMG...

A mil-dot isn't measured in standard OR metric. It is equal to 1 meter at 1000 meters or 1 yard at 1000 yards, You see what I'm saying? It's one unit of measure at a thousand units of the same measure.

[email protected]'s
[email protected]'s
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[email protected]

A milliradian equals 1/6400 of a circle if you care to get technical.

 

[DOWDegan]

hmm... granted, in the grand scheme of things, 1cm @ 1000M vs 1" @1000Y really doesnt mean that much.... until you get into accurate shooting at long range (notice I don't use "precise" shooting) and this is wher I get a bit confused...

Its been said that 1mil is 1/1000. no problem, thats easy and idiot proof (I get it afterall) but wait, here's where I get a bit fuzzy...

1" = about 25cm so.... how big IS a the dot on a mil-dot reticle? I've heard 3.5'' @ 100y (did I forget a zero?) but I also heard 10cm @100y. Any clarification on that would be great.

And this is why I'm concerned (confused?) If I'm shooting 1000y (yah, right) and I'm measuring my mil-dots and convert everything to inches hoping to put both bullets in the same hole (hey, it's my fantasy, just follow along) how would I know if I'm actually getting my measurements correct if..... oh nevermind, I just confused the dickens out of myself. I'll just hope to hit clay targets at 300m and be happy with that :\

 

[I Dares I Wins]

okay...

the reason they say 1 mil equals 3.6" @ 100yds is because it's the same as 36"(or 1 yard) @ 1000yds. They are just dividing it by 10.

You ask how big a mill-dot it's self actually is? Okay, this is a little difficult to explain via text but I'll give it a whirl...

Imagine you have a circle cut into 8 equal wedges, and, starting at the center, you have rings drawn every cm. if you start at the center of the circle, the portion of the ring in one wedge would equal 1 mil, thus if you start at the very center of the circle the mil would be teeny-tiny, but the farther you move outward, the bigger it gets. the only difference is that the circle is not cut into 8 wedges, but instead 6400 wedges.

dose this help to answer your question? I know it's a pain in the ass, but after you wrap your head around it, it will seem simple.

Hope this helps,
Josh

 

[DOWDegan]

so... let me get this straight (I may be over-thinking this)....
It doesnt matter if I measure my range in meters or yards, the mil-dot reticle isn't going to change anything when I'm calculating elevation?

I understand the whole degrees thing, I'm just trying to figure out if it makes a difference when I'm calculating distance to target (flat, horizontal polane) if I do it in Meters (my comfort zone as its easier math while on the fly) or Standard.

Thank you so much all for your input

 

[lonewolf]

Mills measured in metric and standard?

Quick question... a number of you have given equations that give mils in 3.6"@100Y and then give the formule to complete your calculations. Why?

Last I checked, every military in the known world uses nearly every measurement of distance based on the (much more accurate IMO) metric system. Why? Easy... it's nearly idiot-proof. Oh, and it's interchangable with nearly every other military.

Picture giving an RAF pilot distance to target stated as 453. If he assumed (as he should) that you gave him the distance in meters, but you (after doing all that crazy math) gave him DTT in yards... I'd hope you weren't within that region where he drops his ammo.

Now I understand that there are a LOT of shooters here that aren't military but have the talent to shoot 1000m (Y?) shots on a regular basis. This is by no means my attempt to tempt them (I can't shoot that far myself... never tried honestly). But... and here I finally get to my point.... since a Mil-dot reticle is calibrated metric, why would you even bother trying to calculate your shots in standard?

If I'm not mistaken, the U.S. Marines still use inches/yards.

Although I was taught to shoot using metric in the Army, I'm a construction contractor now and use Imperial on a daily basis, so it is easier/quicker for me now to calculate in inches/yards.

When done correctly, the end result is the same, either way.

 

[Mongo66]

Well I appreciate the link to this thread, but after reading this thing I am convince I should buy anything other than mil dot. I'm more confused now than ever. Why isn't there ever a simple 'this is how it works in the field' answer? *sigh*

 

[lonewolf]

Well I appreciate the link to this thread, but after reading this thing I am convince I should buy anything other than mil dot. I'm more confused now than ever. Why isn't there ever a simple 'this is how it works in the field' answer? *sigh*

You'll just be short-changing yourself. It's really simpler than it sounds. Practice is the key.

 

[DOWDegan]

yes, the basic formula for figuring your target distance is amazingly simple (target size in inches / MOA x 100yards if you prefer Imperial).

I'm just muddying the waters trying to figure out if theres a difference in metric vs standard mil-dot use. Apparently there isn't so I'll bow to more mathematicaly inclined minds than mine and go back to picking boogers, shooting 300m and being happy, LOL.

Thanks all for helping me clear up the mess I made in my own mind

 

[driftrider]

Figuring range in mils is simple

Hello, everyone, this is my first post here, so here goes! :lol:

DOWDegan,

Figuring ranges using milliradians (mils) is easy once you realize that the units DON'T MATTER, as long as they are consistant throughout the formula.

The range formula for a mil-dot reticle is:

(Targets actual size (units) x 1000) / Apparent size of target in mils = Range to target in (units)

(units) can be whatever units you want to use. All you really have to know is that an object that subtends one milliradian will be 1000 times it's actual size away from you. An object that is 1 meter tall that subtends one milliradian will be 1000 meters away. An object that is 30 inches tall subtending one mil is 30,000 inches distant. Units don't matter except that the units you put in will be the units you get out.

If you know or estimate the size of the target in inches, the output range will be in inches. If you use yards, the range output will be in yards, meter gives you meters, etc... Understand?

To explain further...

Knowing the range to the target in inches isn't that helpful for most people, but if you're from the United States you are probably most familiar with a comfortable measuring short distances feet and/or inches.

For instance, say I'm looking at a deer through my mil-dot reticle. I know that the typical mature whitetail buck is roughly 20" from back to briscuit, and this distance measures 2.4 mils in my reticle. So I plug these numbers into my equation:

(20 inches x 1000) / 2.4 mils = 8,333 inches range to target (rounded to the nearest inch)

Now, I don't know about you, but 8,333" doesn't help me out much, but yards I can handle, so I convert inches to yards by dividing my answer by 36, which gives me 231.5 yards. We'll call it 232 yards because 1/2 a yards doesn't really matter at this range. With my 257 Wby, this shot is just point-n-click, no adjustments needed for a deer sized target.

Now, if you want to go high speed/low drag, you can integrate the conversion right into the original mil range formula and save yourself a step, and this is why you'll see the equation look different with different units of input and output. In the case of using inches for the input and getting out yards, one can simply divide the 1000 by 36 and plug it back into the formula so it would look like this:

(Actual size of target in inches X 27.78) / apparent size in mils = range in yards

Note that 1000 / 36 = 27.78

If you know inches, but your drop chart is in meters you'd convert the inches to meters and the range formula looks like this:

(Actual size in inches X 25.4) / Apparent size in mils = range in meters

you get 25.4 because 1" = 2.54cm. To further convert cm to meters you'd divide 2.54 by 100 then multiply that number by the 1000 in the original formula and substitute. So:

(2.54 / 100) x 1000 = 2.54 x 10 = 25.4

You can use whatever input unit you want, as long as you know how to convert the output to a unit value that you can use. Of course, you can plug any unit into the original formula and get a result in those same units, then convert. Or you can take a shortcut and change the formula to do the conversion in one step.

Does this answer your question?

Mike

 

[REX187B4]

this is my first post and i am very impressed with the knowledge on this site and happy to be a part of it and hope i can help someone else gain some knowledge

 

[FMMC1324]

This may have been answered in an earlier post on this same thread but i dont want to look through all that so here it is. When you measure (with a mil dot scope) distance from the target to be, say, 800 meters and you're 40 feet up off the ground (in relation to the target), using that distance number (800 meters), would you need to compensate for the added COS(deg)=Hyp/Adj mumbo jumbo stuff for the angle trajectory junk? or would it just give you the line of sight distance, which you need for balistic trajectory calculation?

 

[Xelera]

This may have been answered in an earlier post on this same thread but i dont want to look through all that so here it is. When you measure (with a mil dot scope) distance from the target to be, say, 800 meters and you're 40 feet up off the ground (in relation to the target), using that distance number (800 meters), would you need to compensate for the added COS(deg)=Hyp/Adj mumbo jumbo stuff for the angle trajectory junk? or would it just give you the line of sight distance, which you need for balistic trajectory calculation?

Wow...

 

[FMMC1324]

would you need to compensate for the added COS(deg)=Hyp/Adj mumbo jumbo stuff for the angle trajectory junk? or would it just give you the line of sight distance, which you need for balistic trajectory calculation?

(what i meant by that was, as a right triangle (the bottom being the distance between the target and the base of the structure your'e standing on, the vertical line 40 yards {or whatever I said} and the hypotenuse the distance you see with the mil scope. what i'm asking is if you have to adjust the elevation in addition to the 800 meter measure because you are 40 yards of the ground or if you are just ready to go.)

 

[Xelera]

There are lots of people here willing to help, but to coin a phrase from Benjamin Franklin, "The Lord helps those who help themselves".

First, posting in a thread that you aren't going to take the time to read the thread is one sure-fire way to not get responses. Second, the "search" feature is your friend.

That said, when you are shooting at an angle, and range your target with mil's, you are getting the hypotenuse distance. If you dial in for elevation using this distance, your shot will miss your point of aim high. You have to find the distance that would be represented by the base of the triangle you are forming, or the straight line distance from the base of your elevated shooting position, to the target. It will be shorter than your straight line distance obviously.

Hope that answers your "mumbo jumbo stuff for the angle trajectory junk" question.

 

[FMMC1324]

there's a search feature? oh wait i see it, sorry I was looking for a text box with a "search" button next to it.

 

[meatsweats]

Heres a link to the download section of leupold's website http://www2.leupold.com/resources/downloads.htm

Download "LEUPOLD RANGING SYSTEM FOR THE TACTICAL MILLING RETICLE (PDF, 681 KB)"

Its a pdf document of a pretty good expalanation of ranging, mils, calculations etc.

 

[DaddyX]

ok so im using shooterready.com

my ranging is spot on (now that im using the size of the target in inches instead of yards) but the problem im having is the wind is a NE wind anywhere between 5-9mph but my shots are hitting to the left of the target. sometimes (at 909 yds.) as much as 2.5 mils to the left.

what am i doing wrong?!?!?! :?

 

[DaddyX]

heres one i am dealing with

range: 650 yds.

wind: 3/4 value 10mph

bullet: .308 175 gr. HPBT match king

dont they make wind charts for stuff like this?

 

[OPTact1]

Make sure your scope is set at the proper magnification for ranging while using a second plane scope!