[sholiz]

First time poster here, and I've got a question if you wouldn't mind answering.

I've got a Winchester Model 70, but I'm not sure which model it really is. I've taken the notion that it is a Cold Weather Custom in 7mm Magnum (which I know). And since I'm only a student on a VERY tight budget, I picked this gun up for $400 from a local dealer.

I figured it was a good deal, and I wanted a long distance rifle so I picked it up. Well, now comes the indepth questions.

Is Winchester a good enough brand to make into a custom? I know Remington is the most widely used, and most widely availible. But would this be a gun that would be worth while to make into a target/hunting rifle? Right now it has a 26" barrel, 1:9" twist rate, and a standard action and bolt. Magnaporting is done also.

I'm just wondering, if this would be a gun that would be worth while to say ... stick a good scope on, trigger job, large bolt handle, new stock, ect. Or would I be better off to try and pick up a used ADL or BDL from someone or somewhere and mod that out.

I don't know if 7mm is too big for target and paper punching. I know the ammo isn't easy on the pocket book, so I was thinking that it might be better off to buy something like a .308 so I can pick up cheap WOLF ammo. I've been liking the big bores more and more, and the .338 has been looking like one heck of a rifle also.

I'd like to see this rifle with like a heavier barrel, and fluting done to it. Maybe used for long range deer or elk hunting.

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and good job on a wonderful site,
Josh

 

[Jeff_850]

as far as i know the Winchester M70 is a good action
Remington M700 is perhapes the most common action found in world class sniper rifles yes but there is nothing wrong with the Win M70
there are some world class sniper rifles that use that action too such as the Dakota T-76 Longbow

if you get another rifle or not thats your call... if you get another it shodulnt be cause the model 70 is a bad action but you need a differnt caliber to save money (long term) on ammo

as far as wolf ammo goes i would stay away from it
look in the calibers and cartridges section to learn more on that there are atleast 2 wolf ammo discussion topics in there... you invest in a good rifle, scope, quality mounts why kill the potential of that system with cheap ammo? if you want to shoot wolf ammo get an AK
if you get a .308 i cant tell you what ammo to get cause i dont have one myself yet and every gun is differnt

.308 does have less kick than the 7mm... and less expensive
for long medium and long range target shooting i consider the .308 to be a good choice
i think the Rem 700 in .308 is a good choice if you decide to get another rifle.. im getting one myself in th near future
what range will you be target shooting at?? if it is close you might want to consider a .223... good surplus ammo (Federal XM193 isnt that expensive) www.cheaperthandirt.com sells that stuff for $3.79/pack my both my AR-15s love it

 

[CM2k]

If you're on a tight budget, getting a custom rifle isn't the best idea. It's best to just stick with the 70 you have now. To get the rifle fully accurized up, and with a new barrel, will run you up Another 600 or so dollars. That's without a Scope, Rings, Base. That'll run you up another 750 dollars, IF you can find some cheap. And if you want to long range shoot or hunt with this gun, they will not be cheap, unless you like looking through bad glass at long ranges.

Ps; On the subject of fluting, if it's done right, you'll get a barrel with no loss in rigidity, but you'll pickup and increase in mirage off the barrel. So it's kind of a win/lose scenario. You'll break even.

 

[Jeff_850]

Ps; On the subject of fluting, if it's done right, you'll get a barrel with no loss in rigidity, but you'll pickup and increase in mirage off the barrel. So it's kind of a win/lose scenario. You'll break even.

well my Bushmaster Varminter has flutes on it.. only shot it on a few hot day it was around 85-90 degrees and i know what your talking about... it does happen aspecially after an extended shooting session

 

[muzzleblast]

Hey Sholiz

Last year I bought a winchester 70 black shadow in 300 win mag, and thats an economy rifle. I didn't expect anything much out of it, but it suprised me. Mel pointed out to me here on the forum that quality of mass produced rifles can vary, but this one shot about 1.8 moa out of the box. Not too shabby.

I find the 70 to be a good strong action, and I bet it would be a great start to a custom rifle. For me, since I'm on abit of a budget too, I just build to it slowly, and enjoy it in the meanwhile. Start with the trigger job, as that will always be there. If you want to keep your stock, wait on it, and have it bedded. If not, a choate varmint stock was able to cut my group size in half. I know it would work better with a heavier barrel though.

As for the barrel, well, theres a lot of great makers out there and great prices too...If you don't have your heart set on any other rifles, just save up a lil at a time, and get to know shooting your rifle as it is for now. I know 7mm mag can be a little expensive, but not terribly, and the kick isn't all that severe either...Personally I don't find it different from 30-06 range...a little softer than my 300.

For the scope, there are some alternatives to a pricey Leupy...I find my Bushnell 3200 Elite 10X40 with mil dot is a great bargian...Bet its only $200 US, and its dependable. Mel has a review of it on his site, and I think he did a good job of writing it. If you don't mind a scope fixed on 10 power. Burris scopes have been mentioned here too, and one has a reticle that has marks on it to compensate for shooting from 100 to 500 M...They are affordable too.

I think you can do a lot with your rifle. Just figure out what you would like to keep, what it really needs, and hold off on things like the bigger bolt handle, and other things that aren't really essential. Hey, who knows, maybe after bedding the stock, tuning the trigger, and a little bit of truing, you'll be satisfied with the results, and not want to do anything else to it. As is, its a wonderful hunting rifle. Find out how much everything will cost. Decide if thats right for you. If not, then you can buy a tactical rifle without breaking the bank. 7mm Mag is a great long range round, and a very effective hunting round. I don't think anyone makes match ammo, but with premium ammo you will be pretty damn accurate anyway. I have to agree with Jeff_850 on the wolf stuff...If you like hitting the broad side of a barn, stay away from it.

Sounds to me like you have a great rifle.

 

[subThermal]

The Model 70 is an awesome rifle. I have two myself. One is a 30-06 and the other is a .308. I'll be honest, I normally don't test the groupings of my hunting rifles all too often, as long as they are within 2-3 inches at 100m I can take a deer / boar no problem.

The action itself is nice, the floorplate nice (since they dont skimp on it like Remington ADL vs BDL.). The only real difference between the two is the way the action works, both of mine are extremly smooth, even compared to my heavily modified 700 action.

As far as Barrels go, I'm going to try out Montana Rifleman. I have a Shilen and a Blackstar already, but I would like to see how a "bargain" brand would do vs. thiers. Montana Rifleman makes the barrels for SC1.

Stocks are a personal opinion.

Wether or not you could make it a custom rifle, of course you could. Hell, I would seriously consider turning one of mine into one except I'm too attached to them.

 

[muzzleblast]

If someone really wanted a model 70 to use for long range shooting, but for whatever reason didn't want to build one, the stealth looks awesome.

 

[mele]

Winchester has made a very strong come back the last couple of years. Their most recent rifles have been very good. The M70 action is a very good action to build a custom rifle on. I would have no reservations doing so. The Stealth is indeed a good rifle for those interested

MEL

 

[sholiz]

Thank you all for your opinons, one of these days I'll figure out a cost on it. I'm starting to think some of the main things will be:

1: Trigger, definately needs to be changed. Crisper, smoother pull IMO.
2: Barrel, it's a quite thin barrel as of now, and I wouldn't mind having a thicker barrel on it.
3: Bolt modifications, it's somewhat sticky and not as smooth as I would like it to be.

Really, that's about all I feel is "needed" to make it a better rifle for me. After reading opinions and such, there are other things that could be changed. I could always get a new stock, bolt handle and such at a later time. But I'm going to go along with a trigger job and work on the bolt. After that, I feel the rifle should shoot fairly decent, from what I've seen Winchester's do.

Thanks,
Josh

 

[subThermal]

I would actually suggest getting the trigger job, barrel, (I perfer #8) and or stock. A good stock pillarbedded can drop the accuracy down a lot. If you keep you (wood?) stock, I would definately have it bedded, you will be amazed.

Of course, if you get a bigger barrel, it might not fit correctly in your current stock either.

 

[muzzleblast]

Right on, Thermal.

For now, unless buying a new stock, bed the action only, and not the barrel...you'll only have to change that later anyway, when the barrel is bigger. Personally I find light sporter barrels react better to bedding while heavy barrels like free floating, but every rifle is different.

Good point about bedding/free floating/new stock dropping accuracy too...50% isn't out of the question.

When you start shooting, just for fun put a business card between your barrel and stock. That might improve things. If it does, free float it.

 

[badshot]

What does the business card do?

 

[muzzleblast]

Well, if you put the card as far down the barrel towards the receiver as you can, when you re tighten the front screw it free floats the barrel a little...Well, the thickness of a card anyway. You should be able to pass a dollar bill between the barrel and stock. If you have to, use two cards but one usually does it. Its enough to notice a difference.

 

[badshot]

Poor mans barrel floating. I love it. Learn something new every day. Thanks.

 

[muzzleblast]

lol thats one way of putting it...no prob.

I usually do it just to see how a barrel would respond to really being floated.

 

[sholiz]

Right now it's got a pretty stellar stock on it, why I don't really want to change it unless it just dosen't want to cooperate. I'll most likely wind up having it floated, and bedding done aswell.

The barrel, I'm a fan of #8 also. I'm thinking that, but would it do much harm to have this fluted? If I found the right company, and such.

Thanks,
Josh

 

[subThermal]

Because it really depends on how you will shoot. I put about 100 rounds through my 30-30 Monday and it was steaming. If it was scoped I would have mirage like a mother-f. But I am also in Texas, and it was well into the 90's that day.

If you only plan to shoot, say 20-30 rounds in a given session I would not worry about the fluting. If you want to invite all of your friends to shoot everytime and pour 100 rounds through it, then I would flute it.

You can always get a Mirage Shield from Lilja (or other) and put it on a barrel. Your going to get it hot either way you go, so I dont think Fluting is all that great, and if they F it up, they will really F it up

If you had your action bedded today, tomorrow it would shoot 50% better. It is very cheap if you do it yourself too.

 

[muzzleblast]

Ugh...A F-ed up fluting job...that has to suck

 

[Jeff_850]

heh on bedding the action anyone want to explain how to so i could do it cheaply? and anything i should know? sorry all i know what to do with guns is clean them and shoot them and have an understanding of the parts what they do and how it works etc heh

 

[subThermal]

You can find several good tutorials on the web with step by step instructions on how to bed your rifle. I would go through it, but that whole liability thing... :lol:

Just do a google search for "Rifle Bedding Tutorial."