if done correctly, gauging, truing, bedding crowning lapping its time intensive and machinery is expensive, thats why i tell folks buy a savage and do it your self

great thing about savage, you might need to true the action but other than that glass bed it and your done

 

Just for example, if I were to buy a Lawton Action (rem clone) a McMillan Stock, badger ordinance bottom metal, and Jewel Trigger. Then send the action off to a barrel maker (lets say Hart) who can chamber and install the barrel; What is left for me to do, other than put the trigger in place, bed the stock, screw on the bottom metal and go shooting?

Am I missing any difficult steps that involve machining, trueing, or precision measuring to a degree that your average shooter couldn't handle with basic hand tools?

If I can gather the parts, put the rifle together myself, and have a finished product that is nearly on par with a professional job; all the while saving at least $1000 and 6 months to a year in wait time, then I think I might just have to put a rig together. But if I'm going to end up with a sloppy looking, sloppy shooting rifle because of something that I am overlooking . . . well, that is Not desireable.

 

Your question is not as clear cut as you make it sound. The work involved depends greatly on what you want in your rifle. In simple terms the machine work involved can get rather extensive. Depending on the finish you request the paint/finish can be costly and time consuming. Bedding, while not rocket science, is a bit more involved then just slapping down some bedding compound. Also a proper fitting of the overall rifle can be rather time consuming.

So yes if all your smith is doing is screwing on a barrel and dropping said barreled action into a stock then the mark-up seems high. On the other hand if you are like most who purchase a custom rifle then you are after a high degree of customization. And with anything else custom you will pay for it.

 

absolutely if you can do it your self, as I do, its fun and cheaper, but over the years I have acquired the tools, 1st lathe, calipers, cutters , live center, finish reamer and holders, truing mandrel, bolt face laping tool, compound, lug lapping tool, the list goes on

Remington 700's are notorious for being out of specs they almost always need to be trued and lapped

barrel vise, receiver wrench, torque wrench....

anyway you get it, Gunsmiths spent mucho $$$ on all of this

but in short, you can do it yourself, Remington have a recess in the barrel chamber that the bolt fits in, it needs to be done correct and with a lathe.

everything else you could do, you still need receiver wrench, / vice, mandrel for truing the receiver, and so on. I am sure many companies will do it for less than $1000, look into pacnor if you buy their barrel they will mount it for a reasonable price and turn around is about 6-8 weeks

 

The labor time includes the machine setup time needed for each operation, hand labor to run the machine (if manual) or program one (if CNC), any special jigs or fixtures that may need to be made, and several other things.

On top of that, the labor rate has to be adjusted so that the shop burden (consumables, utilities, rent, interest on debt, employee wages (if not a one-man shop), taxes (inventory, real estate, etc), machine maintenance reserve, etc) get paid and there is some left over at the end for the owners to make money.

 

A computer repair man responds to a call and, after hearing the description of the problem, goes to the computer and takes out a tiny hammer and taps the computer on the side.

"Fixed", he says, "that'll be $165". Well, the computer owner is astonished at the amount of the charge for just tapping the computer on the side. The repair man says, "It's $5 for the tap, $10 for travel, and $150 for knowing where to tap it."

 

lol gsmithplm I see your point exactly


fmsniper > I can definetly see what you mean about all the set up and work that needs to be done to true an action such as a remington. But isn't that work basically avoided by going to a high quality aftermarket action such as a BAT, Lawton, or Surgeon?


Honestly I think I could have started this thread with a better question. My intent is basically just to determine if assembling my own rifle is a challenge I want to undertake; or if I should save for another year or so and hire a professional.

What I probably should have asked, was: What steps (and tools) would be required to finish assembling a Barreled Action (BAT, Lawton, Surgeon, etc) with its trigger, bottom metal, and stock?

If anyone is willing to give me a brief description, or quick step by step, how to; it would really help me determine if I am capable of such a project.
Never having done it before - it seems simple enough
BUT never having done it before- I very well may be missing a Lot.

 

I am debating the same issue. Do I build it myself or send it to a gunsmith?
Ask yourself a few questions. Are you planning on building more than one rifle?
This is to justify spending the several hundred dollars on the specialty tools needed for the build. Or that money can go towards the gunsmith fees. If you do the job yourself and mess it up, you might have to take it to a gunsmith to fix it. I am not doubting your skills, but it is possible. If you build it yourself, you will have no gaurantee or warranty. Some gunsmiths and custom shops do offer these. They usually stand behind thier products, as long as you don't abuse it. What components are you going to use? How much are you willing to spend?
Just for comparison: I have all of the components for my build. Just not the tools to build it properly. This will be my first and only custom rifle. I cannot justify spending over $200 on tools that will never be used again. Therefore, I will be sending it to a smith to build it. Just some things to think about.

 

. I cannot justify spending over $200 on tools that will never be used again. Therefore, I will be sending it to a smith to build it. Just some things to think about.

great point


if you really want it do it yourself, get a good Savage action and build away, very easy to do and in expensive..
http://www.westernshooter.com/2009/12/h ... rifle.html


http://www.switchbarrel.com/Savage%20FAQ.htm

finish assembling a Barreled Action (BAT, Lawton, Surgeon, etc) with its trigger, bottom metal, and stock?


if its a barreled receiver, already then no big issue, depends on stock some minor fitting and glass bedding

 

I'm actually thinking of building 2 rifles. And I don't think either of them can be Savages.

The first will be a 338 Lapua based catridge necked up to 375 and blown out (Ackley Improved fashion) - Its my compromise between a Very long range target rifle and a large caliber hunting rifle. (I don't believe Savage makes a receiver big enough for this one)
The second would be a .22lr target rifle, with the only available action I know of comming from Stiller.

I was planning to have both actions sent off to a barrel maker that offers chambering and fitting of thier barrels to customer actions; so that would take care of the hard part. (Though I might have to pay for a custom reamer to be made for rifle #1 ?? not sure ?? )

 

I have tens of thousands of dollars in machines, tools and tooling not to mention the time put in to learn to use them so I make a rifle better instead of worse.

 

I have tens of thousands of dollars in machines, tools and tooling not to mention the time put in to learn to use them so I make a rifle better instead of worse.

That's why I will be sending mine to you.

 

I have tens of thousands of dollars in machines, tools and tooling not to mention the time put in to learn to use them so I make a rifle better instead of worse.

That's why I will be sending mine to you.

My wife, my creditors and I thanks you.

I actually got my machines at good prices too. I bought a used but not used up Harrison M250 lathe and an old Tree 2VG-C that had spent it's life in the mold repair shop at a face mask company so it hadn't been used much or used to cut metal much. It has also been retrofit with 2 axis CNC controlls that I really don't use much at all. I was ofrtunate to be in the right place at the right time for the lathe and looked for a mill for over a year before I found one that was in the right price range, not Chinese junk and not trashed completely.

 

The second would be a .22lr target rifle, with the only available action I know of comming from Stiller.

Let me advice you to be money and frustration ahead by just buying an Anschutz 2014 barelled action and having it set in the stock of your choice.

 

As with many things like this, if it was easy for everyone to do for ourselves, custom gun makers wouldn't exist. If it's easy to do, why would anyone have oneeyedmac build a rifle?

I have never built one myself, but based on the fact that oneeyedmac and many other custom gunsmiths still have a job, I'm going to guess it isn't an easy task. :wink:

I will say though, everyone loves some DIY, and it would be cool to own a rifle that was mostly built by you. So if you are willing to take the risk that you may have to send a mess of a first attempt to a gunsmith to have fixed, then by all means go for it. And you may do it well, and have homemade rifles that saved you $$. Heck, I have a stepstool I made in woodshop class years ago and it still works today. Probably not as intricate as a rifle, but I'm proud of it.

 

I'm NOT knocking gunsmiths or thier skills, I'm just still at a loss as to what the hard part about my build would be.

A few people have mentioned all the machinery and work that goes into building a custom rifle from the ground up, chambering and fitting the barrel and trueing a consumer action.....I believe you, that part would be hell for someone without the training and tools.

But what problems are usually encountered when taking a top quality aftermarket action that has already been fitted with a chambered and crowned barrel, and trying to fit it with a trigger, bottom metal, and stock. I'm assuming there is a bit of final stock fitting to be done, and bedding a rifle can be challenging, but other than that...what's left?

Do certain things usually need to be tweeked, tuned, machined, etc to get the rifle to feed? are there still some kind of truing issues? perhaps something to do with timing the trigger/action combo?

BTW, I'm not thinking of any difficult paint job or treatment, so that won't be an issue.

 

you would be suprised at how much money I have made fixing the how hard can it be all you have to do is twist 2 wires together jobs.
I went to 900 hours of class room instruction and 8000 hours of on the job training before I became a journeyman electrician. there is a reason I make what I make . a qualified gunsmith has alot of time , money and knowledge invested in his trade to provide you with the best possible product for your money . if he dont then he wont be in buisness very long .

 

Just my 2c

I would assume that "a person" in general has the skill to do many of the steps involved in "building a rifle", but there is a wide degree of difficulty depending on what you want to do.

I wouldn't send a gun to a smith to mount a bipod.

I would feel confident that I could swap out a Hogue stock on an SPS Tac with a B&C.

I can mount a scope (probably crooked but that's just me).

I probably wouldn't try to pillar bed my $700 Mcmillan myself, but I could possibly convince myself it would be a worthy challenge and eat it if I messed it up.

I wouldn't even think about trueing an action, recrowning a barrel etc.

I think it just depends on what YOU want to do. Evaluate your own skill and the steps you want to achieve and do what you feel comfortable doing, get help with the rest.

 

Just my 2c

I would assume that "a person" in general has the skill to do many of the steps involved in "building a rifle", but there is a wide degree of difficulty depending on what you want to do.

I wouldn't send a gun to a smith to mount a bipod.

I would feel confident that I could swap out a Hogue stock on an SPS Tac with a B&C.

I can mount a scope (probably crooked but that's just me).

I probably wouldn't try to pillar bed my $700 Mcmillan myself, but I could possibly convince myself it would be a worthy challenge and eat it if I messed it up.

I wouldn't even think about trueing an action, recrowning a barrel etc.

I think it just depends on what YOU want to do. Evaluate your own skill and the steps you want to achieve and do what you feel comfortable doing, get help with the rest.

+1

 

+1 MORE 8)

You last two posters are exactly right, by my thinking. And it sounds like you are on a roughly equal footing in terms of what you would undertake yourself.

It just seems that with this thread there are a lot of people promoting the merrits of professional builders and talking about how much skill they have and how much they have invested into machinery. Where as, I agree with that.
But I am only trying to figure out if the build I am planning already has all the hard parts taken care of, OR if I am going to run into a problem that I have not forscene, once I start to put things together; which no one really seems to have commented on, with any definitive answer/explaination for thier opinion.

Lawton Action > sent to barrel maker > chambered, fitted, crowned
+ Jewel Trigger
+ McMillan Stock > minor fitting & bedding
+ bottom metal
----------------------------------
= complete rifle, ready to shoot

OR

= complete mess (that won't feed, won't mate together fully, or won't shoot well ... perhaps all of the above flaws)

? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?

 

If all those items are specifically matched to fit the Lawton action from the manufacture (drop-in fit) then they should just bolt together and it should should fine. Their may be minor fitting issues that you could resolve yourself, with the right tools and skill. Again that depends on your confidence in your skills and the proper tools. Take a Savage rifle for example. You can buy all of the drop-in components from several different manufacturers. All you have to do is assemble them properly and it will work. Drop-in items don't always fit properly. They are mass produced for a mass produced action. The minor inconsistencies in both may cause fitting issues. That is where an individual needs the knowledge, skills and tools to make them fit for optimal performance.
I am no gunsmith, but I am not afraid to tear one of my own guns apart and work on it, then reassemble it. I have had no issues yet. But, I know where my limitations are and when to take them to a gunsmith. As long as you establish your skills, confidence and know your limitations you will be ok. Good luck! Hope this helps.

 

What do you plan to do yourself? I planned something similar except I choose a Stiller action. When I called to place the order for the action, I told Jerry Stiller of my plans, he offered to do all the work I had planned to have some unknown but no doubt talented gunsmight at Krieger do.

Jerry had me send my McMillian stock to him so that he could make sure the barrel contour was correct. He suggested a Rock Creek Cut Rifled barrel. He offered to sell me either a Timney or Jewell trigger at cost. I didnt' plan on going below 2 pounds on the trigger pull so I opted for the Timney. Jerry suggested I bed the action, but said he wasnt' really set up for that and asked me where I would like to send the rifle. I choose Larry McElroy aka "oneeyedmac". Larry did an excellent job bedding the action and shipped it to my FFL.

The only part of the process I really could have done was the bedding of the action, but even then after investing as much as I did on the rest of the rifle it seemed silly to try to cut a corner there. I would have to buy the compound, and I knew it wouldnt' look at good as it would if I had it professionally done. Plus, I knew it would be done right or it wouldnt Larry wouldn't ship it to me.

I really didnt' save anything, I paid someone to do every aspect of the rifle. Anything I saved on my build was strictly because of Jerry and Larry's generousity. I mean I didn't do anything, but write three checks, one to McMillan, one to Stiller Precision and one to Larry McElroy.

So my build was:


Stiller Action > Rock Creek Barrel> chambered, fitted, crowned, muzzle brake installed, barrel nitrited by action maker
+ Timney Trigger >a bought at cost from action maker
+ PTG BDL bottom metal > bought from and painted by Stiller
+ McMillan Stock > Discounted by McMillan
+Action bedding > Larry McElroy aka "oneeyedmac"
----------------------------------
= complete rifle, ready to shoot
Consistant sub .5 MOA rifle

I will be adding a HS Precision drop magazine system to it when I come home next. Its suppose to be a drop in fit that even I can do. Larry graciously offered to do it for me if I got in over my head. Larry is a great guy to deal with and very talented. Both Larry and Jerry were very generous to me. I don't think either of them ran to Ferrari store after doing business with me. I don't have any complaints about the rifle. If I had just let Larry do it from start to finish, I don't think it would have cost me any more, I don't know if it would have shot any better, but I think it would have been a little more "finished". The rifle looks great, but I think it could still use some love from Larry. Good luck on your build. I hope it turns out as well as mine did.

-Shane