So how does it group? thats the bottomline.

It doesnt sound like a long chamber but long leade/throat. When you ordered your custom barrel what did you ask for, sounds like you got a factory spec throat.

When I order a custom barrel I tell them I want a shorter throat for spitzer bullets.

I have an LTR with over 5000 rounds through it. Remington puts a very longe leade in because of heavy round nosed popular for 'brush busting' back in the day. It still shoots submoa.

Call whoever chambered the barrel and ask what sort of specs he used for the chambering job.

 

Long throat; excuse me. That's what it appears to be - throat too long. The barrel was ordered as just a 308 rifled barrel and later chambered by gunsmith who did my action work and fitted the barrel. He also fitted the stock (HS) up on this build. So he put whatever throat on the rifle.

Grouping - right now using some rounds made by someone else (168 gr Sierra Match Kings with a 2.800 OAL and avg muzzle velocity of around 2550fps) it is grouping about .75 MOA at 100 meters. I will make some rounds of my own with new OAL of 2.832 to see if I can tighten up the grouping.

If the groups don't tighten up to my satisfaction, what are my options to reduce the throat? Can the chamber side of the barrel be cut down to reduce the throat?

 

If you want to shorten the throat you can have the barrel cut back a bit and have it rechambered with a reamer that has a shorter throat. If your smith doesn't have a reamer with a shorter throat he can have one made for between $150 and $200 by Dave Kiff at Pacific Tool and Guage. You may want to call and talk to Dave about reamer specs ans he is "The Man" when it comes to reamer manufacturing and very personable.

Before you do that though build a load for it and shoot it; you may get it to group very well. Factory Remington chambers have a very long throat and you could park a car in some factory Weatherby throats and some of them shoot very well.

I just got an off the shelf .223 Match reamer from PT&G and it's designed with a .025 jump by the way.

I hope this helps.

 

Mac,

Yep; that helps a bunch and I'm into part one of your plan - loading and shooting rounds a little longer that will fit my mag.

I had suspected I could get a little taken off the chamber side of the barrel but was unsure about shorter throat reamers. If my rounds don't group well at 100 meters, barrel will come off for some work.

Thanks for your recommendation on shorter reamers.

 

I would try some different bullets and charge combinations seated out as long as you can and still get them in the magazine. Some bullets are more tolerant of jump than others. SMK's seem to jump very well. I have read Bergers do not. I am limited with my LR308 to magazine length and get good results. You may as well.

 

Hope to shoot at least 20 rounds this weekend, 5 shot groups of varying charges and bullet seated with OAL of 2.832 (all the mag can take). And SMK 168 gr HPBT.

 

I gained some distance by using the 175SMK's to reduce jump. The forward design of the bullet is somehow different than the 168SMK. Every little bit helps. Bergers were out of the question with the double-ogive VLD design, way too much jump.

 

Bergers were out of the question with the double-ogive VLD design, way too much jump.

You beat me to the punch there, no way VLD's will work with that much.

A long throat can be made to work quite well, as there are a lot of factory rifles that shoot quite well even with the long throat. I personally wouldn't stand for it on a custom, but if you didn't ask for it from the get-go you don't have much of a leg to stand on. Though, by the same token, chamber specs are most definitely something your smith should have discussed with you before starting the build.

-matt

 

I've always told those who buy Rem. centerfires that they all seem to have LONG throats.
I seat my 155gr Lapua Scenar's at 2.800" and they do well.
However, I have to seat my 175gr SMK's at 2.900 to be just off the lands. Ive tried many different lengths, powder amounts, and types of bullets. Seating the 175's at 2.900" has given me the best results .3moa at 100m. The 155gr Lapua's group right at .5moa at 100m.
Not much room on the 155's to seat them longer.
I noticed the big boys came out to help on this question
Your getting some knowledge here.

B

 

I was about to say that Scenars tend to be long bullets you may also want to try some 155 grain Palma bullets, Sierra has a Palma bullet talked about in an article here: http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=techservice&page=xring&volume=2&issue=2.

Comment: I haven't used the SMK Palma rounds but they are probably work a try.

 

Telli-
Do you really have to feed from the magazine? Slop feed works so I wouldnt throw the barrel away just yet. Quite a few never bother with the magazine.

Good Luck

 

Don't specifically have to feed from magazine but would like to, to have the extra two rounds just in case. And no, I'm not going to toss the barrel, but if my rounds at 2.832 OAL don't give me the grouping I'm looking for then the barrel will come off for some cutting off the chamber side and reaming to get a shorter throat.

I should have talked about the throat length with smith before he started. On the next build I do (Stiller TAC 300 action & Broughton barrel), I'll make sure the rounds work for the magazine as well as a minimal jump is achieved per the barrel maker.

 

I always spec I will be shooting the 168 and want a shorter throat. you have not mentioned how experienced the gunsmith was prior to the work you asked for.

Remember experience counts, on both the rifle owner and rifle smith.

But to be sure many here have made the same mistake of omission when getting work done by others.

Not to pick a nit but if you need two quick followup shots just what are you shooting at that requires a sub MOA series of rapid shots? Dangerous game hunters in Africa shoot minute of water boo, not denutt gnats.

Just thinking out type...

 

If you can not get what you want from the 175 SMKs try the Lapua 185 Scenar. It will fill that space and wont be at max mag length before touching.

 

I always spec I will be shooting the 168 and want a shorter throat. you have not mentioned how experienced the gunsmith was prior to the work you asked for.

Remember experience counts, on both the rifle owner and rifle smith.

But to be sure many here have made the same mistake of omission when getting work done by others.

Not to pick a nit but if you need two quick followup shots just what are you shooting at that requires a sub MOA series of rapid shots? Dangerous game hunters in Africa shoot minute of water boo, not denutt gnats.

Just thinking out type...

Gunsmith is very experienced, won't say name but he builds competition/match rifles. My bad was not telling him I was going to shoot 168 SMK. He probably defaulted to standard throat length since it was my fault since I didn't convey information. Point now is not to completely discard barrel, but tweak it if I don't get what I want at 100 meters.

Why sub MOA - quite honestly I want accuracy. Years ago, I "Hailed Mary" a shot on a mulie that was way beyond my scope and ballistic knowledge at the time. Next fall, when I go West hunting I want to be able to put the round where it's supposed to be without any Kentucky windage - but use the scope (S&B) along with my ballistics tables I generate.

 

Roger that-
If I can pass this on to you. MOB- minute of buck. There is a 6 to 12" vital zone. My best one round knock down was 486 on a 162 hogdressed buck. The top of his heart was missing, my wife was mad, she likes heartmeat for fajitas.

That wasnt done with a custom barrel, but a 5000 round factory long throated LTR, using a mild charge of varget to fling a 168 Amax.

So I guess what I am saying is what counts in making a better shot than Hail Mary is the the ability to judge distance and read wind.

In the grand scheme of things .75 or .5 moa rifles are not what lets the game get away, its having no clue how far away the animal was. you say hail mary, any idea how far? I know a sweet buck that took a 168smk at 630 yards in the chest and ran hard. It was fortunate the buck ran toward the hunters and was dropped roughly 300 yards away with a second shot.

So my thought is calling mary is best done under 500 yards with a 168. You wont need a benchrest gun for that. But some skills really would help.

(But I understand wanting a crazy accurate rifle, I just never could afford one so I learned to use what I got)

Hey if you decide to get a new barrel i'll sure take that tomato stake off your hands :lol:

 

The Hail Mary was in Colorado with a 270 BAR, in 1978. First round, I held at top of back and round landed in dirt between his legs. Second round held about 18 inches above back grazed front of neck; just a hair cut. Third round held same height and good trigger pull dropped him in his tracks. I had gun zeroed at 200 yds and guesstimate range at about 300-325 yds. I can do better than that now and want to make sure. Next hunt up is elk.

Nowadays, with age and patience, I can put the rounds where I want them and put them down. Always in the chest with no damage to inside tenderloins or shoulders. Can't stand waste. Wife loves venison, so I keep the freezer stocked.

Where I live, most animals present less than 200 yard shots which is not a problem. But occasionally, a very large one will try his luck out around 550 yds in an open field late in the season chasing does. I want to be able to make an ethical shot. Hence I love accuracy and knowing the range (laser rangefinder is part of my normal hunting accessories).

 

Not meaning to thread-jack, but this is not a total thread jack... there is a great article on 308 bullets in June's Target Shooter Magazine. Check it out: http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/. It is kind of hard to use the interface, but the article you are looking for is by Laurie Holland. There is also a good discussion of twist rates and what should work best with which bullets.

 

Telli-
I'm thinking your rifle is accurate enough for under 500 yard engagements.

Onething does cause me concern.

If you were zeroed at 200 and held 18" above the back that means your 270 needed 12moa or so to go from 200 to 300 yards and hit the chest. Difficult to believe as my LTR needs 2.5 moa to go from its 200 yard zero to its 300 yard one, throw in another moa for the 25 yard extra and thats still not 12moa.

Range finder sounds like a good investment

 

Telli-
I'm thinking your rifle is accurate enough for under 500 yard engagements.

Onething does cause me concern.

If you were zeroed at 200 and held 18" above the back that means your 270 needed 12moa or so to go from 200 to 300 yards and hit the chest. Difficult to believe as my LTR needs 2.5 moa to go from its 200 yard zero to its 300 yard one, throw in another moa for the 25 yard extra and thats still not 12moa.

Range finder sounds like a good investment

Well, it was a long time ago and range estimates were not so good back then. It could have been sighted at 100 yds instead of 200; memory seems to be fading. Sorry it sounds like a tall tale, but it did happen and mount is right above me on the wall. Uncompagre National Forest close to private land - deer came off alfalfa field up the gully two over from where I was at.

 

Oh never said tall tale, you said that.

I was just concerned at you ability to range. My 308 takes 11.5moa from its 100 yard zero to get to 500 yards. Your 270 should be smoking compared to my 308.

Leads me to conclude its more a case of poor range guessing. No slag, you would be amazed how many experienced hunters lack even basic range guessing ability.

Not to lean on you but I'd keep the rifle and get super hot on range skills. Range finders can lie, they tag a bit of brush, fail to bounce off the animal's hide- you would be amazed.

That Mk1a2 Eyeball you have will get you on target when devices fail you, but it needs to be calibrated.

I understand about mounting that buck, I have a few, by the time I got to the 486yard one the fun had worn off. Nothing exciting about the look of 8points on the wall, it was the look across the field that was kind of impressive.

Good luck on your future hunts

 

Oh never said tall tale, you said that.

I was just concerned at you ability to range. My 308 takes 11.5moa from its 100 yard zero to get to 500 yards. Your 270 should be smoking compared to my 308.

Leads me to conclude its more a case of poor range guessing. No slag, you would be amazed how many experienced hunters lack even basic range guessing ability.

Not to lean on you but I'd keep the rifle and get super hot on range skills. Range finders can lie, they tag a bit of brush, fail to bounce off the animal's hide- you would be amazed.

That Mk1a2 Eyeball you have will get you on target when devices fail you, but it needs to be calibrated.

I understand about mounting that buck, I have a few, by the time I got to the 486yard one the fun had worn off. Nothing exciting about the look of 8points on the wall, it was the look across the field that was kind of impressive.

Good luck on your future hunts

Thanks. I was never more waken up to "eyeball ranging" as I was when I was at the Army Intel School at Ft. Huachuca. We did a "little" terrain walk and did some eyeball ranging and boy can things be deceiving. I will most definately get the eyeballs calibrated since I'm still better than 20/20 at distance - not so much up close. Thanks for comments.