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I registered so that I could comment on your answer to a rather open question; Thank you! Not so much for your answer though I agree 100% but that you'd take the time and effort to so completely give the OP such a complete answer without it sounding condescending. Think I'll hang around a while, see if there are more like you.



Probably the most profound statement to date on any shooting forum I have ever visited:

The best thing you can do for accuracy is to carefully and thoroughly burn out the first barrel...


-Nate
 
I registered so that I could comment on your answer to a rather open question; Thank you! Not so much for your answer though I agree 100% but that you'd take the time and effort to so completely give the OP such a complete answer without it sounding condescending. Think I'll hang around a while, see if there are more like you.



Probably the most profound statement to date on any shooting forum I have ever visited:
When Nate speaks...it is always worth listening to. He is an absolute wealth of knowledge and is willing to share with anyone willing to listen.
 
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Nate, Thank you so much for taking the time to post such a detailed outline on a journey to happiness if not contentment in the search for perfection in long range shooting. I'm new to this sport and reloading also and looking forward to improving my shooting ability over the coming years. I plan to print your post out and pin it above my new reloading bench. Thanks again, Dennis.
 
On other thing that can help. Take a course with someone good. Why make all the mistakes yourself? You can miss a lot of the mistakes spending time with a good instructor for a couple of days.
 
Look, I spent 26 years in the US Army Special Forces as a Sniper and Weapons expert. I have seen everything under the sun when it comes to modifying a weapon. The answer to your question isn't easy to figure out. You have a lot to take into consideration, What exactly are you trying to accomplish? Long Range accuracy out to 1000-1500 yards? Sub-minute accuracy? First start with yourself, if you aren't trained to be a sub-minute accuracy shooter all the modifications and money will not help a thing if you aren't capable of doing it. This isn't a hit on you but it is the real world. All of the manufactures out there have done the work in making the rifles they sell to be 1 minute accurate guns right out of the box, If you spend $2000 on a rifle and buy a $100 scope then you end up with a 100$ gun. So the very first thing is to buy a scope that has a great reputation that you can easily use and start shooting. If you haven't had formal training in long range accurate shooting than consider getting a few blocks of instruction, that will give you a much bigger bang for your dollar than a bunch of "High Speed" parts slapped into your rifle. Once you have done this and you have seasoned your gun and absolutely can't get any more accurate than start looking at modifications to the rifle but do so with an expert weapons specialist that can give you guidance as to what modification suits your shooting style the most. A big thing that helped me was reloading my own ammo, you can play with powder and rifle bullet weights and design to greatly improve your accuracy before you start buying expensive parts. Remember this when you shoot at paper anyone can be a good shooter, but when that paper starts shooting back at you and the heat is on, a great shooter still hits what he is shooting at. So get out there and start shooting, set up a routine that works for you and meets the desire that you have, no one thing on your gun will make you a better shooter if the shooter isn't good to begin with.
 
Ive only been here for a few years and I ask way more questions that I answer....some of the replies areto YOUR QUESTION ....are off topic.
The question has a fundamental answer...each component off your rifle should be at its best. Even if you've never shot a rifle in your life ...the answer is the same.
Most rifle shoot best when their bed is solid..ie pillar bedded. glass bedded, check that.
Most rifles have a rather long or factory space between the neck of the cartridge and lands of the barrel...check yours...maybe having a gsmith tighten up your chambering.
Bolts can be sloppy and not locking solid in all points of contact...check that.
The trigger has been my biggest problem...see if its adjustable and learn where you make the gun fire ...usually a lighter weight on the trigger is better...not for
everyone ..just usually.
If you use a scope ..check it ..make sure its in good working order .make sure its level and all the screws are tight...on everything ..not just the scope.
That can or could be applied to almost every rifle...
When I was trying to get perfect scores in archery everytime ... I removed every possible error of the machine I called a bow...I went over it with a fine tooth comb so that the only error would be mine..(human error)
SO then comes the hornet nest of bullet powder combinations of which we all know can make or break you. Most of us love playing with new loads...changes bullet placement , adds or subtracts from accuracy ...again a new topic
In archery I numbered each shaft and fired at 12 different targets. each arrow had its own landing strip..
Bullets and powder come after you've done everything you are financially or physically able to do

So actually the shooting of a rifle is one topic ..the accuracy any given rifle might produce is another.
Remove as much mechanical error as possible in all your components.
So if you want to put money into a rifle. ..decide...where or what is the biggest liability...what is easiest and cheapest to fix.
In other words go deep into your rifle with someone who knows rifles...might suggest a new one... might not.
Mine just came back from the grave. Shooting like its new after rechamber and glass bedding.
The advice of more money didn't answer the question for me...
Buying another barrel is for me another rifle,.....a good barrel is my greatest alley...but you want to tighten up the one you have.

So what I heard is ..how can I make my rifle better,...not how might I be a better shot, not replacements of components...just make any given rifle better.
And for the record...These guys..especially Nate are my go to guys....sometime we get a little sidetracked and want to teach what we think is more important the question..sometimes its needed.
Stay here ...read, read read ask ask ask
deno11bravo
 
and by the way....that rifle should be fine !!!! amazing out of the box rifle...have a smith look it over...buy as good glass as you can afford...or sell me the rifle :D
 
I recognize that this question is somewhat warmed-over at this point, but for my first post here as a newbie, I think I may have some thoughts to share.

By now, I guess the OP has noticed that the 300WM is perhaps not the ideal chambering for extended practice. Simply, its recoil can be fatiguing, and volume practice can be economically prohibitive.

I think that the serious beginner can benefit from a .22LR trainer. The .22LR chambering should be relatively inexpensive, is inherently accurate, not tiring, and can present a challenge without needing to trucked all the way out into the middle of nowhere in order to find that challenge. The trainer does not need to be a precision range queen, just something that does its thing in a neat and consistent manner, and honestly, the simpler and cheaper, the better. It need not emulate anything other than itself.

The serious shooter will probably, eventually, be drawn to handloading. An established, accomplished handloading capability can provide economies and access to ammo matched to specific firearms, thus achieving greater portions of their accuracy potentials.

I have some physical deficiencies, which tend to keep me more at the formal range, and also tend to make me decidedly recoil-intolerant. Until I was able to get my retirement income under better management, I spent a lot of time on the lower rungs of the income ladder. These trends gave me a strong appreciation for the factory rifle and eking out its truer accuracy potential at costs that could be more easily borne. My income is somewhat more flexible now, but my basic frugality remains unabated.

That last part may help explain where I'm coming from in this and later posts.

I've been at this shooting and handloading avocation for going on three decades now, I've formed some viewpoints; and they often go against the common grain.

First, I am averse to throwing money at problems.

Second, I downplay the compulsion to make a shooter better by equipping them with a better rifle.

I believe that the key to good marksmanship is inherent in the shooter, and that a good marksman can coax the accuracy potential out of most any firearm, or be able to explain why it has none.

I believe the all of us, myself included, are far to prone to blame the implement when the task gets done poorly. I believe that there is a firm market for highly refined precision firearms. I also believe that far too many of us think we are capable of justifying our ownership of such things, and that many of us therefore highly overestimate our marksmanship prowess. I think that when I miss a target, it is I that did the missing, and not my rifle; until conclusively proven otherwise. I may not be alone in that.

I believe that pursuing ultimate accuracy has a place, that place is in BR comp, and that what I intend talking about here us something other than that. I believe in the pursuit of adequate accuracy as oppose to that. For me, handloading is a necessary evil. to be accomplished with the minimum necessary fuss. I further believe that the accuracy in handloading derives from good load development, performed with the least worship being paid to extreme gadgets and toys, and the most to reliable due diligence at the most basic possible version of the task.

I also firmly believe that I could be dead wrong about any or all of these things.

I stand firmly behind the Second Amendment, abhor the efforts of our government to derail what has been clearly understood about it's being the law for the better part of this past 222 years, and I also flatly refuse to get in anyone's face on this web site over the matter. I respect other opinions, even if I don't personally support them, and intend to hold my tongue whenever I cannot express my views in a positive manner.

In this. I may or may not succeed; we'll see...

I just want to get started out here on the right foot, is all.

Greg
 
JarheadNY,
Fairly impressive and insightful first post. Not all opinions are the same, and obviously if they were it would be a dull place indeed.
Welcome to the site. Where in NY?

Terry
 
Interesting opinions jarhead.

Yet it always amazes me how much better average shooters can perform behind my rifle, than one of their own. Can't tell you how many "aha" moments I've witnessed personally, after the light bulb comes on for them regarding my equipment and technique choices. So while there aren't too many misses produced which are the fault of a 1/2 MOA rifle... there are a great many produced by POI shift on those same rifles.
 
I enjoyed your post Greg, we share some similar viewpoints.

Shane
 
I am in awe of this post an the experience contained in there. Yikes!!! :shock: Thanks for that. It will help me too even though I do not shoot the OP's cartridge

Not to derail the thread but just a quick Y/N question if possible Nate..... will the .308 cartridge wear barrels out as fast as the .300? I'm guessing not?

I'd love to see a response to the above myself.

I'm looking at building a LR rifle on the Remington 700 platform and because I already own, and hunt with .308 caliber rifles and I plan on buying a 700 in that caliber. I'm going to be getting into hand loading in the near future and it's a lot simpler if I stick to one caliber.

I have no idea on the life of a barrel and while I don't plan on putting a thousand rounds through my rifle in a year, I do plan on using it a lot and most importantly, hunting with it. At the moment I'm giving serious consideration to either the VTR or the SPS Tactical in .308 and wonder if anybody could give me an idea what to expect (in round count) on the life expectancy of one of these rifles.

I thoroughly enjoyed the initial response and copied and pasted it into a file I'm building in preparation to getting my 700 with a view towards getting the most out of it with the least expenditure of cash.
 
I had one 308 barrel that went over 8,000 rnds before opening up to 3/4-1 MOA. Hovered 1/4-1/2 before that. Pretty amazing. I'd say most 308's will be good for 5000rnds before they start choking. 300WM will go MUCH sooner than that.
 
I had one 308 barrel that went over 8,000 rnds before opening up to 3/4-1 MOA. Hovered 1/4-1/2 before that. Pretty amazing. I'd say most 308's will be good for 5000rnds before they start choking. 300WM will go MUCH sooner than that.
Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. This means the factory barrel should last me for the rest of my life......although, once I get it built and start loading my own I may find myself out doing LR a whole lot more than I would with say, my hunting rifle....lol
 
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